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I'm thinking of switching out all of my Meridian 770w door speakers for the Signature line per Cambo's list. Trying to decide if changing the center speaker really makes much of a difference. Any input on before and after with and without changing that center speaker? Just not sure how much its involved in the average soundtrack? Thanks.
I will be using LR033292 Tweeters, LR047119 woofers, and LR033293 Mids
If I switch the center channel I'll probably go with the C2D2079
If you use either of the "surround' DSP modes then a lot of sound passes through the center. If you stick with the stereo setting then the center isn't used.
Just to note guys, Naviplus has a 100 AUD discount at the moment and has integration with the steering wheel controls. They still have to fix the mapping of the controls on my unit though but I'll post as soon as this is done
Has this mapping update been made? Looking to install either the UAD unit or Naviplus and this would be a major win for the naviplus unit.
Well, I replaced the door subwoofers with the Signature line. They do sound a bit better. I also took the time to dynamat the door cards which has helped a bit as well. I am still left wanting more powerful low end when the top is down, which I know is not an easy thing to do in a convertible. If I add an amp and use the speaker level inputs that go to the woofers behind the seats, does anyone know what frequencies these rear woofers are receiving/crossed over at? I'm just wondering if they have any filtering for sub base which would make that input not useful for adding a subwoofer amp.
The 200mm drivers in the doors are woofers/midbass, not subs. The 200mm drivers behind the seats are the subs, though they are also flimsy and not in proper enclosures. I've seen at least one person replace the subs with better dual 2-ohm drivers and they said it was an improvement. Honestly, in a convertible that's probably not sufficient but the problem is you also don't have much of any trunk space for a proper enclosure. A good single 10" sub designed for small sealed enclosures will do the trick. Something like the Image Dynamics ID10 V.4 would be a good choice. You'll want to use the speaker-level signal from the subs behind the seats to feed your DSP/amp.
Originally Posted by nitro28
Well, I replaced the door subwoofers with the Signature line. They do sound a bit better. I also took the time to dynamat the door cards which has helped a bit as well. I am still left wanting more powerful low end when the top is down, which I know is not an easy thing to do in a convertible. If I add an amp and use the speaker level inputs that go to the woofers behind the seats, does anyone know what frequencies these rear woofers are receiving/crossed over at? I'm just wondering if they have any filtering for sub base which would make that input not useful for adding a subwoofer amp.
The 200mm drivers in the doors are woofers/midbass, not subs. The 200mm drivers behind the seats are the subs, though they are also flimsy and not in proper enclosures. I've seen at least one person replace the subs with better dual 2-ohm drivers and they said it was an improvement. Honestly, in a convertible that's probably not sufficient but the problem is you also don't have much of any trunk space for a proper enclosure. A good single 10" sub designed for small sealed enclosures will do the trick. Something like the Image Dynamics ID10 V.4 would be a good choice. You'll want to use the speaker-level signal from the subs behind the seats to feed your DSP/amp.
Thanks. Its interesting you say the rears are subs because when I isolate them using the balance controls they do not sound like a sub at all. They sound like midbass fill. The doors are clearly reproducing the lowest tones. That is why I was concerned that the rears have some kind of cutoff for the lowest frequencies. Space is definitely the issue. I could mount a slim sub in the trunk but with the big metal wall I'm not sure it will sound very good at all with the top down.
There is also a midrange driver behind each seat for "fill". It's likely that the woofers in the doors do a better job of playing their respective frequencies and you are actually hearing the 90-200Hz coming from them, which is still bass. The poor quality of the rear subs coupled with the poor installation means they probably can't do much in the actual subwoofer range below 90Hz. You can try playing some test tones at various frequencies. Even if the door woofers have a high-pass filter at 90Hz, that won't be a hard cut - it will roll off so they will still be trying to play below that at something like -12bd/octave. I'm completely guessing at the actual frequencies here. It's just to explain the concept. I'd love to know the actual cross-over frequencies of all the channels.
Originally Posted by nitro28
Thanks. Its interesting you say the rears are subs because when I isolate them using the balance controls they do not sound like a sub at all. They sound like midbass fill. The doors are clearly reproducing the lowest tones. That is why I was concerned that the rears have some kind of cutoff for the lowest frequencies. Space is definitely the issue. I could mount a slim sub in the trunk but with the big metal wall I'm not sure it will sound very good at all with the top down.
There is also a midrange driver behind each seat for "fill". It's likely that the woofers in the doors do a better job of playing their respective frequencies and you are actually hearing the 90-200Hz coming from them, which is still bass. The poor quality of the rear subs coupled with the poor installation means they probably can't do much in the actual subwoofer range below 90Hz. You can try playing some test tones at various frequencies. Even if the door woofers have a high-pass filter at 90Hz, that won't be a hard cut - it will roll off so they will still be trying to play below that at something like -12bd/octave. I'm completely guessing at the actual frequencies here. It's just to explain the concept. I'd love to know the actual cross-over frequencies of all the channels.
Yup, I see what you mean now. I played a 40Hz tone and you can really only hear it through the rears not the doors. I opened up the cavity to look at them today in hopes that I could figure out a way to make a better speaker work back there but its a complicated mess with the seatbelts and wiring. I could replace the drivers like Paul did, but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I guess I will try the trunk sub route and see what happens. Thanks for the help.
Yeah - the rear subs are TRYING to play that 40Hz tone but just aren't up to the task for several reasons. So it's their responsibility but they do the job poorly. Personally, I'd skip trying to salvage something from that stock location and go right to a good single sub in a proper enclosure in the trunk.
Originally Posted by nitro28
Yup, I see what you mean now. I played a 40Hz tone and you can really only hear it through the rears not the doors.
By playing test tones I've seen them respond to as low as 20Hz.
I have a coupe, so your installation may be a bit different. I detailed in the thread below how I replaced the rear subs and the replacement speaker parts I used. I replaced the (6) door speakers, (1) dash speaker with and the (2) subs behind the seat. I left the mid-range rears as is, there is no easy replacement.
I put a class D amplifier and LC2i in the hatch area where the spare tire would ordinarily go. I also updated the software for the factory amplifier (a very noticeable improvement in quality).
I also made an "enclosure" for the subwoofers by packing high density foam (think memory foam) around and behind the subs. This helped pretty dramatically to get them to hit the lower frequencies. The open baffle design from the factory is totally inappropriate for the subs.
Well, I thought I would just add my subwoofer solution to this main thread so its easier for people to find the information.
I have a convertible and was really not happy with the lack of bass when the top was down. The factory subs as we know are a pretty terrible design which makes it about impossible to do anything worthwhile in the stock location. I thought about doing a trunk subwoofer, but I read a lot of threads about it mainly just causing extreme rattling and not really translating to good sound in the separated cabin. So I decided to see if there was a small powered sub that would fit behind or under our seats. After measuring I figured out quickly that under the seats will not work. There are several wires and things hanging down under there which don't allow for usable space. I then decided to focus on the area right below the factory subwoofer grills. What I noticed, is even with the seat all the way back, there are several inches of room between the back of the seat and the wall. I decided to try two of the smallest powered subwoofers I could find. The Infinity Basslink Mini. These are a 100w RMS subwoofer that is roughly 11x9x3 inches. The driver is a 6x8 rectangle which goes as low as 30Hz. I like to keep things symmetrical so I decided to put one on each side. My goal was to be able to mount the subwoofers but still be able to easily change everything back to stock without major alterations to the car. I first dismantled the back wall. This is pretty straight forward. I would recommend getting a few extra body clips because it is easy to break the orange version used on these panels. The part number for these are T2R2247. The white version C2D3422 will also work. I removed the rear subs and used a AA battery to check the polarity of the stock speaker wires so I knew which ones to tap into for the new subs. I used the Posi connect taps to connect a speaker wire into the factory harness and then ran that wire down to where the new subs were to be installed. I ran a single 8AWG power wire from the battery in the trunk to the drivers side subwoofer cavity. I then mounted a distribution block to run 2 10AWG power wires to each of the new subwoofers. I used a factory ground location near the seatbelts on both sides to ground the subwoofers. I then ran the network cable from the subwoofer location to where the rear wall cubby would be so I could mount the two bass gain control knobs in that cubby. This did require a small hole to be drilled into the cubby on the inside bottom. This can be easily filled in if needed with a couple of plastic body clips. Finally, I made a mounting bracket for each subwoofer that hangs from the metal lip which is right below the stock subwoofer cavity. I used two self tapping screws to hold this bracket to this lip. I liked this location for the bracket because it was a hidden and perfectly safe place to drill a couple of small holes. I made the brackets out of 1/4 ABS plastic. The part that attaches to the car is basically two 3" by 10" pieces which are attached in a "T" to allow for mounting the bottom bracket of the amp. I heated the first piece with a heat gun so I could make a 90 degree angle that would allow me to screw this to the cars lip right below the stock subwoofer location. I think applied heat again so I could bend the ABS to lay flat down the angle of carpet behind the seats. This is actually pretty easy to do as the plastic becomes quite malleable when heated then hardens back up after a few minutes. I attached the cross piece to that newly formed pice with 6 1/2 screws and then covered the portion the amp would rest on with dynamat so it wouldn't vibrate. I used two small bolts to anchor the bottom of the sub to the new bracket. I mounted the subs upside down so the wiring would be facing the floor making it more concealed and protected from dust and moisture. After testing everything I reassembled the back wall. Note you need to do this in a specific order. Take the grills out of the curved carpet pieces. attach the curved carpet pieces first, then put the plastic top panel that has the rollover bars back on and attach the big bolts to the rollover bars. Then put the grills on and the remaining door trim. I didn't remove the seats for this install, I had plenty of room. The last step is to bolt on the bottom of the new subs. I wanted to anchor the top of the subs too so I drilled two 1/8 holes and inserted plastic push clips I found at a local auto supply store. This worked perfectly. In the end the only thing that would be visible if you took all of this out is the two 1/8 holes which you would easily be able to fill with a couple of plastic body clips.
The verdict. Holy crap! These little subs sound amazing. No exaggeration, the bass is much like I have had with 10" drivers in other vehicles. With the top down the bass is strong and gives you a nice massage as you drive. I have the gain set on the amp at 50% and on the dials in the cubby at about 30%. I turned the bass down to 50% and the subwoofer down to about 40% on the headunit. This cleaned up the sound in the doors nicely and gives just the right amount of strong subwoofer output. So far, I am not noticing any rattles. I added a couple of felt pieces on the front of the subwoofers in case they contact the back of the seat. I can have the seat within about 1/2 inch of all the way back and still have the subs not touching the back. For $175 each this is a great way to add the much needed low end to the convertible and it's almost completely reversible. Here are some images of the install.
Wire taps. On the subwoofer plug the top middle is positive and bottom middle is negative.
Used these for grounding the amps
There are the push clips for attaching the top of the sub to the carpet panel
I still have to clean up the wiring below the subs
Seats are pretty much all the way back as long as you don't like to sit very upright.
For anyone that has replaced the center channel speaker - do you need to remove the center vent housing? I popped off the speaker grill but the speaker screw closest to the windshield is blocked by another piece of plastic.
09-03-2020, 02:02 PM
