Hi guys,

At the suggestion of this forum, I recently began looking for a trustworthy independent shop to take my Jaguar to as it's no longer in warranty, and my dealership had quoted me a pretty wild price for my 6 yr/96,000 mile service.

Found a shop nearby that had fantastic Yelp reviews, and specializes in Jaguar, Land Rover and other European cars. The service manager seemed honest and nice, and offered to diagnose the car first to see what items in the 6 yr/96,000 miles service it actually required, since I'm only at 29,500 miles.

After diagnosing, he told me the only things the car really needed was an oil change and new front brakes (rotors and pads). I thanked him, and asked if he measured the rotors. He said no, but that the grooves were visible, which meant that it needed to be replaced. He told me the official JLR guidance is that 0.5mm off the normal 38mm (+/- 1) thickness is the "max wear limit". He also said that if I just got the pads replaced, but kept the old rotors, that it would "definitely" cause squealing.

Quoted price was $1,244 for both front rotors, pads, sensors, parts + labor.

I told him I'd think about it and do some research on the price. He said that I could probably drive it through the holidays, but that I would get an alert about the brake pads soon, at which point I'd need to replace both pads and rotors.

I was hoping I could get some reactions from this group about the need for new rotors and the price. Does what he said seem right?

My car is a 2016 F-Type that I purchase pre-owned in Dec 2018 and I've never had either the rotors or pads replaced.

Thank you in advance for any advice!!

 

I think you'd be OK just doing the pads, without rotors. I recommend Porterfield's, and got them from VelocityAP (one of the forum's sponsors). Great pads, no squeals, much less dust. I did front & back at around 34k miles. Front/Back, the pads cost $324; installation by an independent was $350.

 

Either the service manager got it wrong (maybe on purpose!) or you misheard him as the wear spec for Jag rotors/discs is 2 mm below new thickness not .5 mm!
It is SOP for JLR dealerships to claim/state that once the brake pads are worn enough to need replacing then the rotors must also be replaced, but this is pure BS.
On almost all modern Jags the pads wear at least twice as fast as the rotors and in 99% of cases one set of rotors will last for at least two sets of pads.
Maybe the service manager is just following the dealership protocol, maybe not.
The factory specs for worn rotors are:
355 mm front brakes - new thickness 30 mm, wear limit 28 mm.
380 mm front brakes - new thickness 36 mm, wear limit 34 mm.
Extremely conservative and the rotors would almost certainly be perfectly OK at twice that amount of wear.
You say the service manager said "normal 38 mm" but even the larger 380 mm rotors are only 36 mm thick when new, so again either the service manager got it wrong or you misheard him.
Best bet is to measure the thickness of the front rotors yourself using a Vernier caliper (plenty on Fleabay going cheap), very easy to do once the wheel is off.
Also while you are at it check/feel for a lip around the outer edge of each rotor, both front and back. If you can see/feel a pronounced lip at least 1 to 2 mm thick both sides then the rotors probably need replacing, if little or no lip(s) then they probably don't need replacing unless they are badly scored/grooved.
Also, just having new pads on partly/lightly worn rotors will not cause squealing in and by itself, but to prevent squeal you should properly lube the caliper slide pins and where the backs or sides of the pads contact any metal part eg where they slot into the caliper brackets, and then the new pads should be properly bedded in to the rotors.
Pad type also makes a big difference, with OEM and OEM style pads - semi-metallic - being prone to squeak and squeal a lot more than ceramic type pads (such as Porterfield R4S), never mind the massive dust that OEM pads generate!
Three or four times now across my XFS, XFR and F-Type I have fitted new front pads to partly used rotors and only ever had a problem with noise when I used semi-metallic pads, as soon as I switched to ceramic pads there was no more noise and the brakes worked perfectly for many years and miles afterwards.
The price quoted is a little steep but not completely OTT for new pads, rotors and labour, but you can buy new pads (and rotors if needed) for much less yourself and if you are even mildly handy with the spanners it's a fairly easy DIY job, especially if it's just a pad change.

 

Oops, double post

 

If your rotors are grooved enough that you can feel the grooves then they're likely up for machining or new ones, and if they're close to the minimum thickness then new is required. If you don't think the advice is good, find another quality workshop and ask for a second opinion... but be careful of receiving specific advice from a highly-rated professional who has seen the car, then letting random people on the internet who have never seen the car tell you that the professional's advice is wrong. From what you've said it sounds like you've found a highly reputable independent, so I'd ask "Why are you questioning their advice?" Is there a reason you don't trust them, are you just trying to save a few dollars, or another reason?

First things first feel them for yourself (trust, but verify!), and maybe post some photos so we can see it too. If verified, I'd probably be wondering why the rotors are so badly grooved after 30k miles... seems a bit early, I'd expect more like double that and indeed my XES had rotors done at about 60k miles. If you can't verify, then I'd suggest more research into the shop's reputation.

Installing fresh brake pads on used rotors is fine, but installing fresh pads on badly grooved rotors can:
a) reduce initial braking performance as the contact area is reduced (at least, until the high spots on the rotor wear matching grooves in the pad)
b) possibly induce squealing
c) result in shorter pad life as the pads won't wear evenly, or
d) all of the above

The same applies when fitting new rotors and old pads - once a new set of pads are bedded into badly grooved rotors they shouldn't be used on new rotors... so if you change the pads now and a month later you decide to do the rotors, you're up for another set of pads.

First Second line of the OP says it was taken to an independent

 

I'm consistently blown away by the amount of knowledge on this forum and the generosity with which it's shared; thank you for the answers!

I don't think I misheard him, because I specifically was repeating the numbers and typing them on my phone for reference, and I recall saying "0.5mm?? That's almost nothing" and he agreed. Maybe he had the wrong specs?

And I don't believe I have any reason to mistrust them - again, their Yelp reviews are extremely solid and I don't see any complaints on the BBB - but I just wanted to get thoughts before I went through with such an expensive job. Totally fair point that I'm weighing input from "random people on the internet" against a "highly-rated professional" haha. Just thought I'd see what the forum had to say.

The hard part is that I'm not nearly as handy as it seems like most people on this forum are. I don't even know how to use a spanner. So unfortunately, checking it myself will be challenging.

How bad of an idea would it be to wait until later this year (when the shop said my brake pads would start giving me alerts) and then take it to another shop to get the pads replaced and see if they independently mention the rotors?

 

Shops quote rotors as a matter of policy because it reduces the call backs for squeaky brakes, it’s more profitable to sell more parts and lastly for liability.

It may be a reputable shop but that just means he’s going to sell you the most complete job he can that you won’t have a problem with down the road. That’s great for the average consumer.

 

Diorama Sky,
Although not an F-type owner, I have 2 XKRs, and when I replaced my rotors probably more than 5 years ago, after my mechanic replaced them with an aftermarket set on my 5.0L coupe, they shimmied so badly I couldn't stand it. We tried machining them to no avail. I then did some shopping and bought a complete set, front and rears from R1 Concepts. Five (or more) years later, and they're still smooth as silk. They're also quite beautiful as I got drilled and slotted rotors that still are gorgeous. They were very reasonably priced, the customer service was top notch, and the sales person was quite knowledgeable. You might want to take a look at them for your F-type. As for pads, very recently I needed new pads and decided to try EBC Red stuff pads to try and cut some of the black dust of OEM pads. There may be some lessening of dust but I don't particularly care for their gripping feel. I like the OEM pads better.
Good luck with your choices. Below are the ones I purchased (I believe)

 

I suspect he was mixing up the CCM brake specs with the steel rotor specs, although the CCM brake rotor wear specs are based on weight not thickness.
Being a skinflint I am always looking for the most cost effective way of doing things and ways to save money, hence my suggestion that you measure the thickness of the rotors yourself coz it's very likely they don't really need changing. Also it's hard to save money on labour by DIYing it when you you don't have the knowledge or skills required! Anyhoo, I now suggest that for peace of mind and if your wallet can handle it you go with what he recommends, new rotors and pads, at least that way you can come back at/to him if the new brakes don't perform well.
Don't wait until the brake pad wear sensor triggers, those sensors are problematic and unreliable, and in any event there are only two of them (front left inner pad and right rear inner pad so two pads out of eight!) and if/when the dash warning lights up there is no way of knowing which of those two pads front or rear has triggered the warning without physically checking the pads, or if it's a false positive which is not uncommon.

 

If you really were a skinflint you wouldn't be driving an F-Type, Oz! Nothing skinflintish about not wanting to be ripped off needlessly.

 

I just did pads and rotors on my ‘vert. I used the same R1 Concepts drilled and slotted rotors as previous poster. Porterfield pads. Smooth as silk stops. Bonus is cost savings. I sourced rotors from Rock Auto. Just pay attention when ordering. There are four different brake configurations on the F-type. Make sure you get the correct size rotors.

 

Fair comment, it really is more about not wanting to get ripped off by the exorbitant amounts charged by some (dare I say most) JLR dealerships. That is why I have never used my local JLR dealership for anything but warranty work (once only mind you), and by local I mean the next closest one is some 700 km away!

 

Yep, ya gotta know exactly which brakes you have when ordering new rotors and/or pads, many a punter has ordered and paid for the wrong ones largely because many (most?) sellers are extremely vague in their ads with the brake parts specs. Hard to track down what sub-model of F-Type our friend Diorama Sky has but I found an older post of his where he says it's a base model vert.
Which means it should have the 355 mm front and 326 mm rear brakes although it is possible but very unlikely it was optioned with upgraded (bigger) brakes.

 

Also be aware that if you drive until the dash light comes on the wear sensors are now junk and need to be replaced.
You can bypass them if you don't want to mess with them again by connecting the two wires together and then tucking the wire back in the wheel well.
I just replace my pad's before the light comes on.

But the wear sensor replacements are not much money either so not a big job replacing them. Just order everything at once so you can complete the job.
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FYI - I just dropped a grand getting my driver side window to operate correctly on my Jeep Grand Cherokee!!
That price for brakes on an F-Type seems like a bargain in comparison.
My local Jeep dealer charges $180/hour and does NOT work fast!!

 

That was a little harsh.

To the OP, replace parts as needed and not when told too. To many people listen to a mechanic and not the car, very easy way to check is look at the pads. Take two quarters and places then near the pads and do both sides, if the pads are at or are wider than the quarters you are golden ( my thoughts and not a have too) . Do not look at mileage, if you drive light footed, then brakes last much longer. Just do as your car and driving dictates, but SCM is right about don't get ripped off. On my XK, I had a slight squeal when braking, my indy said the front brakes needed replacing. 12k miles later the brakes worked fine, he also told me jag cars needed the oil changed every 6 months, they just wanted my money. Needless to say, I do not do business with my dealer or that indy.

 

Do you think? I suggest you take a lesson or two in comprehension. (Now that might be harsh!)

 

I agree with the posts above, regards the need to replace rotors at EVERY brake pad change. Surely, the recommendation to replace rotors is just a liability/reduced callback option, for any shop.



ALL disk brakes will exhibit SOME grooves, but a light sanding (in order to more quickly seat the pads) is what I do, after verifying adequate thickness.

How about providing a picture of the rotor in question?

Here's our base model's fronts, after 35,000 miles. These grooves do NOT indicate any need for replacement IMO.