HELP: Dealer trying to void warranty - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum

Notices
F-Type ( X152 ) 2014 - Onwards

HELP: Dealer trying to void warranty

Reply

 
 
 
  #1  
Old 04-20-2018, 12:09 AM
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Gilberts, IL
Posts: 12
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Angry HELP: Dealer trying to void warranty

Hi everyone,

I have this very frustrating situation any help would be much appreciated. I purchased a 2015 F-type V8S about 2-3 months ago still under factory warranty. I also purchased 3 years additional CPO. I brought the car in for a check engine. At first the service adviser said that it was a o2 sensor. Then a few days later I get a call saying that the "engine computer has been modified" and the ECU needs to get replaced and this is not covered under warranty. P167F-00 NON-OEM CALIBRATION HAS BEEN FLASHED INTO THE ENGINE CONTROL MODULE.

The issue is that I have NOT done anything to the car. It is 100% stock. I have not tuned or upgraded it in any way. The previous owner must have.... My question is how why did the code show up 2-3 month after purchase? How did they not catch it on CPO inspection? How do I prove to them I did not do anything? The only thing that ever did is plug in a bluetooth OBD scan tool (
LINK HERE LINK HERE
) but that should not have thrown a code?

Any help would be much appreciated. The dealer advised me to not contact Jaguar corporate because they would void my warranty on the spot.

Thanks!
 
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:38 AM
Unhingd's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 12,286
Thanked 2,806 Times in 2,119 Posts
Default

I suspect the initial CEL was indeed caused by an O2 sensor issue. The dealer probably tried to update the ECU software which triggered the P167F-00 warning and may have prevented the update. Others have actually had their ECUs bricked (locked up) when a dealer tried to update a tuned ECU, turning the whole car into a big brick. If your car is still operational, there's some hope. Otherwise you're screwed and the dealer will have to replace the ECU. If the car is still running, you will need to contact the original owner and find out who did the tune. If you can do that, the original tuner might have the OEM tune on file and you could load it onto the car. The ECU would still be flagged as having been messed with, but at least the dealer could perform the updates without replacing the ECU.


That's the technical side of the issue. The legal side is that you should go back to where you bought the car and demand that they resolve the issue for you (or at least provide you the name of the original owner so you can find out who the tuner was).
 
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Unhingd For This Useful Post:
Don1954 (05-30-2018)
  #3  
Old 04-20-2018, 06:01 AM
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 438
Thanked 57 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Unhingd View Post
I suspect the initial CEL was indeed caused by an O2 sensor issue. The dealer probably tried to update the ECU software which triggered the P167F-00 warning and may have prevented the update. Others have actually had their ECUs bricked (locked up) when a dealer tried to update a tuned ECU, turning the whole car into a big brick. If your car is still operational, there's some hope. Otherwise you're screwed and the dealer will have to replace the ECU. If the car is still running, you will need to contact the original owner and find out who did the tune. If you can do that, the original tuner might have the OEM tune on file and you could load it onto the car. The ECU would still be flagged as having been messed with, but at least the dealer could perform the updates without replacing the ECU.


That's the technical side of the issue. The legal side is that you should go back to where you bought the car and demand that they resolve the issue for you (or at least provide you the name of the original owner so you can find out who the tuner was).
Unhingd is right here (as usual) but its actually the dealerships legal responsibility since they sold you a CPO on a car containing a tuned ECU.
 
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-20-2018, 07:37 AM
SinF's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Canada, eh
Posts: 3,006
Thanked 491 Times in 385 Posts
Default

Previous owner tuned the car, your choices now to go after PO and/or dealer that sold you the car as CPO.

If the car was ever tuned your warranty/extended warranty is gone and voided.
 
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-20-2018, 08:35 AM
ek993's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 734
Thanked 153 Times in 121 Posts
Default

Does the ECU date stamp the change when it was flashed? If so maybe that is a way to prove it was done before your ownership?
 
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-20-2018, 08:57 AM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 19,056
Thanked 5,894 Times in 4,437 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pixel View Post
How did they not catch it on CPO inspection?
If there was no check engine light during the inspection, and the car was running well, there was no reason to go into the OBD system. Thus, the modification was undiscovered

The dealer advised me to not contact Jaguar corporate because they would void my warranty on the spot.

Thanks!

Not sure about the terms and conditions of the CPO warranty but the original *factory warranty*....if there is any time/miles remaining....can't be voided for this. Coverage for specific repairs related to the modification might be denied but the warranty can't be outright voided.

I'm not familiar with the CPO Warranty but it almost certainly isn't a warranty at all but, rather, a service contract/insurance policy type of thing. Different legalities would apply versus the factory warranty.

I agree that this is a matter for the selling dealer to sort out....hopefully with minimal nudging on your part.

Cheers
DD
 
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-20-2018, 09:08 AM
RGPV6S's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 222
Thanked 48 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ek993 View Post
Does the ECU date stamp the change when it was flashed? If so maybe that is a way to prove it was done before your ownership?
My question exactly!
 
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-20-2018, 09:38 AM
Unhingd's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 12,286
Thanked 2,806 Times in 2,119 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RGPV6S View Post
My question exactly!
I am almost certain that it does not record any dates.
It will however, use a check digit methodology to determine that the tune has been changed
 
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-20-2018, 09:54 AM
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Gilberts, IL
Posts: 12
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Default

I was hoping there was going to be a date code stored. Because I can already see this going as a "he said she said situation" When I picked the car up it was late, so there wasn't anyone from service working. I spoke with the GM of the dealership. He didn't say that I modified the ECU. But I could tell the he was impromptu implying it.
 
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-20-2018, 10:40 AM
stmcknig's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 1,009
Thanked 196 Times in 155 Posts
Default

For some OBD codes, there is a mileage/timestamp but not all software can pull it I believe. The dealer's SDD equipment may do and it's at least worth asking them if it would help your case that the tune didn't happen on your watch....
 
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-20-2018, 11:22 AM
CRS 123's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 452
Thanked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Quote ďThe dealer advised me to not contact Jaguar corporate because they would void my warranty on the spot.ď

This sounds suspect to me. Perhaps they donít want Jaguar corporate to find out that they (the dealer) sold the car as certified pre-owned without a full inspection. I would notify Jaguar corporate to complain about these strong arm tactics.
CRS
 
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-20-2018, 11:26 AM
ek993's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 734
Thanked 153 Times in 121 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by CRS 123 View Post
Quote “The dealer advised me to not contact Jaguar corporate because they would void my warranty on the spot.“

This sounds suspect to me. Perhaps they don’t want Jaguar corporate to find out that they (the dealer) sold the car as certified pre-owned without a full inspection. I would notify Jaguar corporate to complain about these strong arm tactics.
CRS
I would wait until the dealer advises the claim has definitely been denied / warranty has been voided.

The dealer may be trying to figure out how to resolve this without alerting JLR to the issue. If the OP calls JLR he may limit the chances of this happening. They are unlikely to be sympathetic to a tune being applied to the engine.
 
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ek993 For This Useful Post:
Doug (04-20-2018), mosesbotbol (04-23-2018)
  #13  
Old 04-20-2018, 12:39 PM
Suaro's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Arizona Desert
Posts: 415
Thanked 57 Times in 49 Posts
Default

The dealer should buy the car back. It was sold with a latent defect. You bought and paid for a warranty you didn't get. Seems to me you have a good case for recision. I would make a demand to unwind the deal and it doesn't happen get a good lawyer's letter. The car will always be suspect. Better to move on.
 
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-20-2018, 02:45 PM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 19,056
Thanked 5,894 Times in 4,437 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ek993 View Post
I would wait until the dealer advises the claim has definitely been denied / warranty has been voided.

The dealer may be trying to figure out how to resolve this without alerting JLR to the issue. If the OP calls JLR he may limit the chances of this happening. They are unlikely to be sympathetic to a tune being applied to the engine.

Agreed.

Bringing JLR in at this point might make matters worse; they might tie the dealer's hands.

Personally, I'd hold off a bit and try to resolve it at the dealer level.

Cheers
DD
 
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-20-2018, 02:49 PM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 19,056
Thanked 5,894 Times in 4,437 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by CRS 123 View Post

This sounds suspect to me. Perhaps they donít want Jaguar corporate to find out that they (the dealer) sold the car as certified pre-owned without a full inspection.

It would be interesting to see what, exactly, is included on the CPO checklist. It might not include probing the OBD to see if any changes were made. Or maybe it does. I dunno.

I would notify Jaguar corporate to complain about these strong arm tactics.
CRS
Not strong-arming, IMO. It was probably good advice....at least for the time being.

If the dealer is willing to work to resolve the issue....which isn't certain at this point....bringing JLR into the matter might not be a good idea. Waiting a couple days won't hurt.

Cheers
DD
 
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:07 PM
FType17's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 583
Thanked 89 Times in 68 Posts
Default

Before they CPO any car, they would install any and all FLASH updates on all modules (o at least verify them) that makes hooking up to the OBD2 anyway.

Secondly, NOBODY should flash anything without asking an owner first, from the days when Dinan applied the funny stickers stating so on my BMW round port, I have made it a habit to place a sticker near the OBD2 port stating so and NOT TO FLASH this car.

The code in question is a PERMANENT code. Most tunes will trigger it and I have a bit of an issue with tuners that manage to avoid it because it COULD save bricking an ECU. I know for a fact of one tuner that has bragged in here about their ability to get around it.

Personally I never buy used because I don't want to take over any hidden issue.

With that said, looking further into this would take you to the Magnusson Act (Federal Law concerning warranty). They need to prove that the issue is exclusively due to your modification...
 
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:19 PM
SinF's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Canada, eh
Posts: 3,006
Thanked 491 Times in 385 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by FType17 View Post
They need to prove that the issue is exclusively due to your modification...
It isn't his modification, it is PO's that CPO inspection failed to notice.

There are a lot of failures happened:

1. PO tuned the car and turned it in without undoing the tune
2. Dealer failed to do mandatory check prior to certifying the car as CPO
 
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:27 PM
FType17's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 583
Thanked 89 Times in 68 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SinF View Post
It isn't his modification, it is PO's that CPO inspection failed to notice.

There are a lot of failures happened:

1. PO tuned the car and turned it in without undoing the tune
2. Dealer failed to do mandatory check prior to certifying the car as CPO
I think you missed my whole point... I suggest you read my reply again.
 
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:29 PM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 19,056
Thanked 5,894 Times in 4,437 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Suaro View Post
The dealer should buy the car back. It was sold with a latent defect. You bought and paid for a warranty you didn't get. Seems to me you have a good case for recision. I would make a demand to unwind the deal and it doesn't happen get a good lawyer's letter. The car will always be suspect. Better to move on.

A buy-back is highly unlikely, IMO. I wouldn't count on a lawyer's letter doing the trick; it might work with some dealers....but others don't feel particularly threatened by "lawyer letters" and might well say "Fine, if that's how you wanna play it. Have your attorney call our attorney and we'll see how things look in two or three months".

Before making any decisions I'd let it play out a bit and see what the dealer can/can't/will/won't do. *IF* the dealer is willing to work towards a solution sans lawyers and JLR then that's the way to go. Putting more cooks in the kitchen isn't always the best idea.

OTOH, if the dealer is unwilling to resolve the issue......eff 'em !

Cheers
DD
 
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:51 PM
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Perth Ontario Canada
Posts: 11,032
Thanked 2,192 Times in 1,797 Posts
Default

If the root fault is simply an O2 sensor and while troubleshooting that, the dealer discovered the traces of a tune, why does the ECU needed to be replaced?
 
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: HELP: Dealer trying to void warranty


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: