Currently less than 2 weeks into trying to find an F-Type R/SVR and already put out a couple offers at or 2-3k above KBB/NADA Blackbook price and every seller is immediately turning us down. Do you think there is a large discrepancy between KBB/NADA and real life for F-Type R/SVRs? I feel that most sellers do not realize how much these cars depreciate year over year. Basically I am seeing that sellers want a minimum 10k over the KBB/Blackbook price and won't even consider offers at 2-3k over KBB/NADA prices. I have never bought a Jaguar before but have owned several sports cars in this price range and I usually get them UNDER KBB/NADA prices.

 

Cars are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them. If people are turning you down, I'd say they think people are willing to pay more than you. You may have to readjust your price expectations ....

 

Well, that depends. What were you offering and for what cars?

As I have purchased quite a bit of cars privately, I encountered this specific demographic of private owners. Lets call them "my precious" owners. They usually have a clean example and are long-term owners. However, they have completely unreasonable expectation on what clean example would bring over market price. Often times, they are conflicted about selling the car and this is a way for them to avoid making a decision to sell without actually appearing to do so. Often times a nagging wife in an older couple involved.

I find the way to approach such situation, if you REALLY want that car, is to drive one of your best cars and talk shop with them. Once they see that "my precious" will be going to a good home to a caring owner they are a lot more willing to be reasonable on selling price AND will often include parts and specialty tools they have into the deal.

 

I understand that Jaguars depreciate considerably and rapidly compared to a couple of other marques, but could the situation of sellers wanting more than KBB and NADA be COVID related ?
If you go online and search for new dealer inventory, you will see a plethora of 4 cylinder models, very few V6's and just a couple of V8's. In fact I could count on one hand how many new 2021 R Models were available from the west coast all the way to Colorado.
The factory just started production again in December and if you want to order a V6 or V8 with the colors and options you like, the lead time is about 4 months. And when I was requesting quotes on a new 2021, the dealers were not budging on price. Supply & demand.

I suppose if I had a real creampuff low mileage, well maintained R or SVR I'd be holding out for top dollar at this point as well.

 

Also important to note that sometimes people price them higher or at the top of the market to leave room for negotiation or to ensure that they get the most for their car. I usually keep my cars and other items in top condition and feel they should get what the high-end of the market brings, but I am also realistic and check others listed etc. More important than those listed are those sold and what they sold for. A car like this is not a commodity where you find lots of sold listings and be able to compare easily but like the books, it can be a guide. Just remember, if they are listing it, they are likely quite interested in selling it and they will likely realize that their price is too high just as you have realized that your offers may be too low. You might find the best deal on day 1 of your search or you might wait 20 months like I did for just the right car and price. patience doesn't always win out but research usually helps significantly.

 

I had an opinion of what’s going on and texted my friend—and one of the newest members of this Forum—and the General Sales Manager of Jaguar Land Rover Scarborough, and with his permission he has allowed me to quote him here:

“Jay you are 100% right! The shut down of the factories for 5-6 months and now the constrained production of only 1 shift vs 3 a day has left a tremendous shortage across the United States and world wide. Dealers have been basically forced to sell what they have for MSRP. Some dealers marking them up above that (NOT ME!) to try and stay as profitable as possible. Land Rover production came back much quicker than Jaguar. I am only now starting to see models trickle in. The demand has not seemed to have diminished as I am still outselling my allocations.

In my opinion the silver lining for the consumer who finances is the fact the factory has been offering 0% or 0.9 % on most models since the pandemic started. Paying MSRP and financing the vehicle was actually a lesser payment than prior to the pandemic when the vehicles were discounted and customers were getting conventional financing rates”.

Nice to have an insider on this Forum. Thank you Ron!

 

SinF,

This is what I feel like I am encountering as well. I am offering between the NADA and KBB high price. E.G. NADA is 49k and KBB is 51k, I offer 50k to start. The last offer they got offended by my offer actually. (Glad they showed their true colors as I would hate dealing with a low IQ seller.) The other offer was slightly different because the seller approached me that they were traded it in were calculating their trade in tax as part of their listing price to sell privately. I offered 2k more than the trade in value + the dealer fees to act as a middle man so that I can buy it privately while still getting the trade in credit and they also declined. With dealers I have just offered the NADA/KBB but they continue to only meet like half way towards the KBB (usually 3-4k over market value according to KBB/NADA) I know these dealers have to be robbing people on trade ins so I am confused why they are trying to make 10k + profit on a used Jag..

 

A car is worth what someone is willing to sell if for and what someone is willing to pay.... You can't tell someone their vehicle isn't worth their asking price and expect to have any success. If you don't want to pay their price and they don't want to lower their price, then you move on and find something that matches your budget. KBB is a guide but not a rule.

 

Anecdotally, I heard that market for collectable and super cars is really up during COVID. Whatever explanation, like inflation, is it could be the case that it is also spilling over into sub-supercar categories where F-type resides in. So if you see KBB rejected universally, including by dealers, then it might be the case that these values are outdated.

 

Mahjik,

If you pay asking price for ever car you buy, I have some bad news for you. There will be always someone who gets a better deal of course but you may be getting the worst deal if you pay asking price. Even in this situation, all of them have come down from their asking price its just that their asking price is so insanely high over KBB/NADA values that coming down for them is still about 2-3k over KBB/NADA.

 

I think offering the KBB/NADA trade-in valuation is the wrong thought process.

Let's say for sake of argument that a used F-Type is worth $50K according to the average of KBB/NADA for best condition.
The dealer might give close to that assuming a new purchase at close to MSRP.
Plus in MA you only pay sales tax on the difference between the trade-in and the new vehicle - do not know how this applies in other states.
So, in that scenario, the seller might get $50K and save another $3.5K in sales tax for a total of $53.5K

The dealer will then (depending on age/condition) perform the CPO and offer the same vehicle for $65K

So, why would a third party expect to buy the same car for basically the KBB/NADA valuation?

Logically the buy should expect to pay a bit less than the CPO price - a dealer told me I could pay $2.5K for the CPO on a non-CPO car in order to extend the warranty
So according to the above assumptions, a "fair price" might be less than $65K less $2.5K (for CPO).
So, a good starting point might be around $58.5K.
In that case the seller gains $5K and the buyer saves $6.5K for a non-CPO vehicle.

As previous, these cars are in limited supply and likely to get scarcer given the switch to EV.
Think of them as "collectibles" or fine art !!

 

The dealer will give significantly less than the private sale KBB/NADA values. They offer trade in values which can be found seen under KBB/NADA trade in value section. The average delta between trade in and private sale on these F Types is 6k-7k on KBB/NADA on the 20 different model/mileage F Type Rs I have seen (43k trade in, 50k private sale at the highest) so the tax incentive is clearly factored in.

 

Absolutely, there is always someone who gets a better deal and most of the time it's based on situation. For example, they find that desperate salesperson and dealership who needs to make a sale at the end of the month. Or you have the dealership that's had a car sitting on their lot for 16 months and just wants it gone. Yep, people who happen to be buying at those times will have the upper hand in negotiating. However, if the dealer or individual doesn't "need" to sell the car, they have the upper hand. If they don't need to sell it, taking lower than what they are asking doesn't mean they will work to make you happy.

When I buy cars, I don't look for "what's the best deal". I look for "what do I want to drive" and buy whatever that is... I'd rather be driving whatever I want during that time rather than waiting around weeks/months for "that awesome deal".

 

The voice of reason strikes again.

 

There may be another way to work a deal here. Have you ever heard of a Courtesy Trade? If the seller and the dealer are willing you can do what is known as a Courtesy Trade. You agree on a price with the seller. The seller then has the dealer they were going to trade in the car to do a Courtesy Trade. They sell the car to the dealer (on paper anyway). You then immediately buy the car from the dealer at the price agreed upon by the seller. The seller still gets the tax advantage of trading in the car. The dealer also gets credit for selling another car.

The only issue I have ever encountered doing this is some dealers won't do this unless they first perform a safety inspection on the car being sold. There is a nominal fee for this of around $100 or so. Supposedly this is to protect the dealer in case there are issues with the car being sold.

 

Yes I tried to work a Courtesy Trade with one of the private sellers. The trade in value was 42k-45k, the trade fee was $800. The KBB/NADA price was 49k-50k. I offered 49800 (49k for car $800 for courtesy trade) and was immediately declined with the claim that had multiple offers above mine. (Whether this is true or not is irrelevant because they still did not except my KBB private sale high price even with me covering dealer fees and them gaining the tax break). It was the first time I have ever heard of it though so if you has asked me this last week, I wouldn't of known lol.

 

I don't find KBB or NADA to be that accurate. When I purchased my 2014 V8 a year ago, calculated value was $41-$43K for a low mileage convertible. and cars were selling in the $38K - $39K range. I look up the same car today, and I get $36K to $38K and cars are selling in the $40K to $42K range. I think sales prices have risen on most of our cars during the pandemic and it seems there is a lag, or maybe lack of market recognition on the part of the value estimating agencies.

Anyway, as many have said here, buy the car you really want (color equipment, condition) now and be prepared to pay a strong price for it. Or wait and see if the market softens as the pandemic subsides. The all electric announcement IMO is not likely to weaken the interest in used V8s however....

 

Edmunds and Autotrader also have used car appraisal tools.

 

Buy the jag that you want, when you find it, negotiate the price, enjoy the jag and don’t look back unless it’s parked. That’s how I bought my 63 E type coupe and my F type. Never any regrets on what I payed or model.
Frank

 

Which prices are you all referring to.? Both of these pricing services typically offer two or three different price levels: wholesale, retail and trade-in. Of course, trade in values are going to be substantially below what the current retail market values are. As suggested above, you may find that the current market value is higher than the listed retail value if prices have truly firmed as a result of new car shortages.