Lug nuts hard to remove
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Senior Member
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From: Vancouver BC/ Bucerias MX
Lug nuts hard to remove
I've been cleaning my wheels and applying "slippy" Rejex.
No problem with three wheels but 2 nuts on one wheel were very difficult to remove... when finally loosened it looked to me there was some rust in the nut, white powder on the stud ( when wire brushed) and the "washer" that faces the wheel seemed it may have adhered to the wheel.
Have never used anti seize as worried about screwing with torque....
Any observations? similar experiences?
Last summer when I removed the dealer installed lock nuts one stud failed...replaced the hub under warranty.
Could be the two lug nuts were tightened way past 92# before delivery and there is not a problem with the lug nuts and corrosion.
If corrosion can be an issue...and magic lube that won't screw up torque settings?
Any experiences ?
No problem with three wheels but 2 nuts on one wheel were very difficult to remove... when finally loosened it looked to me there was some rust in the nut, white powder on the stud ( when wire brushed) and the "washer" that faces the wheel seemed it may have adhered to the wheel.
Have never used anti seize as worried about screwing with torque....
Any observations? similar experiences?
Last summer when I removed the dealer installed lock nuts one stud failed...replaced the hub under warranty.
Could be the two lug nuts were tightened way past 92# before delivery and there is not a problem with the lug nuts and corrosion.
If corrosion can be an issue...and magic lube that won't screw up torque settings?
Any experiences ?
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 876
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From: South Coast - UK
Sounds like that one wheel may have had a bit extra force applied to the nuts at the build stage perhaps?
FWIW - The white reaction/oxidisation is common, and due to the two different metals (wheel and nut) contact. Throw in an electrolyte like water and fizzes, albeit slowly and leaves the white residue.
I keep my wheels very clean, and they still have the white buildup, and that's without getting wet, merely the salt air where I live.
I listened to the more knowledgeable guys on here, and contrary to my thoughts of putting Goop or CopperSlip on the nuts, just leave them bare.
FWIW - The white reaction/oxidisation is common, and due to the two different metals (wheel and nut) contact. Throw in an electrolyte like water and fizzes, albeit slowly and leaves the white residue.
I keep my wheels very clean, and they still have the white buildup, and that's without getting wet, merely the salt air where I live.
I listened to the more knowledgeable guys on here, and contrary to my thoughts of putting Goop or CopperSlip on the nuts, just leave them bare.
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From: Southern California
The problem with anti-seize on nuts and bolts is that it can give you more than 50% added torque value than what you think you're getting, so for instance if you set your torque wrench to 100 ft.lbs the actual torque will be ~ 150 ft lbs. It puts too much tension on the Bolts.
As a mechanical engineer and backyard mechanic, I will weigh in on this one. The torque exerted on a nut is whatever the wrench is set at. Wheel studs/bolts rely on thread deflection rather than thread friction to hold the nut in place. Properly lubricating the thread with a zinc anti-seize compound will actually ensure proper tightening while protecting the thread from corrosion. I've done it this way for decades both on and off track with no issue. I even coat the hub-centrics since they can bind there as well.
In other applications (high frequency/high impact vibration) you need to use a thread lock compound (NOT ON WHEELS). That too helps to initially lubricate the thread for proper torque, and then sets like glue.
In other applications (high frequency/high impact vibration) you need to use a thread lock compound (NOT ON WHEELS). That too helps to initially lubricate the thread for proper torque, and then sets like glue.
Last edited by Unhingd; Mar 3, 2017 at 04:07 AM.
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From: People's Republik of MD
I always thought that thread locker worked by expanding a bit as it dried with different grades having different expansion properties.
Last edited by Dogbreath!; Mar 3, 2017 at 07:00 AM.
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From: Vancouver BC/ Bucerias MX
Mayhaps I should have done a search for "anti seize and lug nuts" before posting....as almost always, the www caters to all of us. Tire rack likes anti seize on the wheel - brake rotor interface...but never on the stud/lug nut. A couple of tire trade magazines differ, a couple of "engineering" sites come down squarel and each side of the issue...Bob the oil guy seems ( mostly) to agree a light coating of anti seize/ 2-3 drops of oil/atf / nothing is optimal....
I've finished with the wheels for now, Blue Moly anti seize on the wheel/rotor interface and centering ring. Have to do a brake bleed before the 1st track day in April so will be able to see how difficult it will be to loosen the lug nuts which were lovingly installed on clean, dry, wire brushed studs.
On a more happy note...the 3-4feet of snow which accumulated over 4-5 days a couple of weeks ago is almost gone and looks like spring has sprung so the Ammonite beauty will soon be awakened from its winter slumber.
I've finished with the wheels for now, Blue Moly anti seize on the wheel/rotor interface and centering ring. Have to do a brake bleed before the 1st track day in April so will be able to see how difficult it will be to loosen the lug nuts which were lovingly installed on clean, dry, wire brushed studs.
On a more happy note...the 3-4feet of snow which accumulated over 4-5 days a couple of weeks ago is almost gone and looks like spring has sprung so the Ammonite beauty will soon be awakened from its winter slumber.
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From: Metrowest Boston
Snow in my yard finished melting a couple of days ago - Jag may be coming out of storage in the next few weeks.
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From: South Coast - UK
As a mechanical engineer and backyard mechanic, I will weigh in on this one. The torque exerted on a nut is whatever the wrench is set at. Wheel studs/bolts rely on thread deflection rather than thread friction to hold the nut in place. Properly lubricating the thread with a zinc anti-seize compound will actually ensure proper tightening while protecting the thread from corrosion. I've done it this way for decades both on and off track with no issue. I even coat the hub-centrics since they can bind there as well.
In other applications (high frequency/high impact vibration) you need to use a thread lock compound (NOT ON WHEELS). That too helps to initially lubricate the thread for proper torque, and then sets like glue.
In other applications (high frequency/high impact vibration) you need to use a thread lock compound (NOT ON WHEELS). That too helps to initially lubricate the thread for proper torque, and then sets like glue.
Well, I'm in the same boat having applied Copperslip lightly to the thread, mating faces and anti-squeal shims on the brakes for over 30 odd years of tinkering.
That said, I buy this snippet off the web:
Wheel bolts should (generally) be installed dry.
The design intent of bolted fasteners is that they should develop clamping force. This means that the bolt is in tension, and the joint is placed in corresponding compression.
When you apply torque to a fastener, most of this effort is spent in overcoming the friction beneath the rotating head of the fastener, and the friction in the sliding threads. Only a little effort is actually expended in tensioning the fastener.
The relationship between the torque you apply and the tension you achieve is, therefore, strongly influenced by the condition of these sliding surfaces, and by greasing them, you will obtain much more tension in the fastener than was designed for.
This extra tension can be enough to strip the threads, to damage the fastener, or to damage the component being secured. If the joint has been well designed, the shank of the fastener will snap first, before thread stripping or component damage, but, not all bolted joints are well designed.
This dependence on friction to determine how torque tightening produces fastener tension is why torque tightening is quite a poor method of installing fasteners. Torque tightening is popular because it's quick and easy. Even with the best torque tools and highly trained fitters, the scatter in bolt tension between a population of bolts is quite wide. For more critical fasteners on cars, a torque plus angle specification is usually given which gives much more accurate tensioning, and which usually makes much more efficient use of the fastener material.
Incidentally, the joint face between the wheel and hub should also remain dry - this face is, effectively, a clutch face transmitting drive and braking torque between the hub and wheel. This torque should be transmitted by the friction, and not by shearing the bolts.
The bottom line is that all safety critical fasteners should be tightened by following the manufacturer's specification, with no ad-hoc modification.
The design intent of bolted fasteners is that they should develop clamping force. This means that the bolt is in tension, and the joint is placed in corresponding compression.
When you apply torque to a fastener, most of this effort is spent in overcoming the friction beneath the rotating head of the fastener, and the friction in the sliding threads. Only a little effort is actually expended in tensioning the fastener.
The relationship between the torque you apply and the tension you achieve is, therefore, strongly influenced by the condition of these sliding surfaces, and by greasing them, you will obtain much more tension in the fastener than was designed for.
This extra tension can be enough to strip the threads, to damage the fastener, or to damage the component being secured. If the joint has been well designed, the shank of the fastener will snap first, before thread stripping or component damage, but, not all bolted joints are well designed.
This dependence on friction to determine how torque tightening produces fastener tension is why torque tightening is quite a poor method of installing fasteners. Torque tightening is popular because it's quick and easy. Even with the best torque tools and highly trained fitters, the scatter in bolt tension between a population of bolts is quite wide. For more critical fasteners on cars, a torque plus angle specification is usually given which gives much more accurate tensioning, and which usually makes much more efficient use of the fastener material.
Incidentally, the joint face between the wheel and hub should also remain dry - this face is, effectively, a clutch face transmitting drive and braking torque between the hub and wheel. This torque should be transmitted by the friction, and not by shearing the bolts.
The bottom line is that all safety critical fasteners should be tightened by following the manufacturer's specification, with no ad-hoc modification.
It was only after lengthy discussion on here (which I need to find) that I omitted it from my hubcentrics and wheel nuts...I'm confused
Last edited by Tel; Mar 3, 2017 at 03:20 PM.
I've been cleaning my wheels and applying "slippy" Rejex.
No problem with three wheels but 2 nuts on one wheel were very difficult to remove... when finally loosened it looked to me there was some rust in the nut, white powder on the stud ( when wire brushed) and the "washer" that faces the wheel seemed it may have adhered to the wheel.
Have never used anti seize as worried about screwing with torque....
Any observations? similar experiences?
Last summer when I removed the dealer installed lock nuts one stud failed...replaced the hub under warranty.
Could be the two lug nuts were tightened way past 92# before delivery and there is not a problem with the lug nuts and corrosion.
If corrosion can be an issue...and magic lube that won't screw up torque settings?
Any experiences ?
No problem with three wheels but 2 nuts on one wheel were very difficult to remove... when finally loosened it looked to me there was some rust in the nut, white powder on the stud ( when wire brushed) and the "washer" that faces the wheel seemed it may have adhered to the wheel.
Have never used anti seize as worried about screwing with torque....
Any observations? similar experiences?
Last summer when I removed the dealer installed lock nuts one stud failed...replaced the hub under warranty.
Could be the two lug nuts were tightened way past 92# before delivery and there is not a problem with the lug nuts and corrosion.
If corrosion can be an issue...and magic lube that won't screw up torque settings?
Any experiences ?
Here's an earlier post:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...4/#post1587581
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2016
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From: Vancouver BC/ Bucerias MX
Twisted off a lug nut. Earlier a stud sheared and as posted earlier in this thread I found corrosion on several studs/lug nuts while doing winter cleaning. When reinstalled they were to 92# on click torque wrench.
Have any / many others had a problem....and a solution ?
I'm ready to replace all the lug nuts and would hope others who have a successful solution will chime in .
Thanks,
Alan
Have any / many others had a problem....and a solution ?
I'm ready to replace all the lug nuts and would hope others who have a successful solution will chime in .
Thanks,
Alan
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,099
Likes: 359
From: Portland OR
Many others have ditched the horrible OEM lugnuts for Gorilla brand and others.
If you are going with chrome vs black, chrome is more available.
A few threads on here. Last time I checked, good ones were available at America's Tire as a special order for around $150.00. Preferred because they are 19mm vs many Mitsubishi and other ones that will work, but 21mm (meaning you need to carry a bigger ended lug in the trunk).
Just remember - no CONE-type, but must be Mag-seat with a washer if fitting onto any stock aluminum Jag wheel.
If you are going with chrome vs black, chrome is more available.
A few threads on here. Last time I checked, good ones were available at America's Tire as a special order for around $150.00. Preferred because they are 19mm vs many Mitsubishi and other ones that will work, but 21mm (meaning you need to carry a bigger ended lug in the trunk).
Just remember - no CONE-type, but must be Mag-seat with a washer if fitting onto any stock aluminum Jag wheel.