As cautioned by many, it appears as if EV sales have peaked. Maybe it's the economy, or perhaps the hype has worn thin, but there are many signs that apparently the early adapters, the Martians, and virtue signalers have had their fill and not too many other people have been convinced that the negatives outweigh the positives.

Even some of the biggest players in the industry [GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota] have recently cut way back on their EV investments, and Toyota, as well, is reaffirming its commitment to hedge in several directions...ICE, hybrids, hydrogen fuel cell, and even ammonia. Sounds like a pretty reasonable strategy to me.

It's not looking great for companies like Volvo and Jaguar that went all-in on EVs [well before the fat lady might sing]. I guess it's just another example of what happens when governments and corporations collude [believing they know better than the market].

In any case, good luck to Jaguar and to each of us as we navigate the stormy seas on the horizon!

 

I think it's more about the EV battery shortage and chips shortage and EV range, my friend has been waiting 2 yrs for his Lyriq and just got notified his is being made. Reason from GM was they were waiting on chips for super cruise. Also, GM and Ford just started building new battery plants earlier this year.
Personally, I am waiting for solid state batteries with 700-800+ mile range. But I have to believe ICE is dead and if they could work out the hydrogen issues, i.e. giant tanks and high pressure fuel lines and of course the BOOM factor, then I would look into hydrogen.
I think it is going to take years to figure what will replace ICE.

As far as sales go, I think the interest rates, part shortages and recession worries have more to do with the lower sales and investments, than EV sales have peaked.

 

Interest take on EVs and electric implications: https://revolver.news/2023/11/contro...es-every-hour/

 

Another interesting take:

 

I hear you, but ICE's have a 120+ year head start and have become much cleaner and more efficient. Again, the advantage of having your fuel on-board cannot be over-stated. Also, the disadvantages of EVs are many, not to mention a woefully insufficient power grid/supply.

Although EVs might indeed be the future of the automobile, what has powered the conversion to a great extent has been climate change fanaticism and its political support through tax breaks. This was never going to end well. Allow the market to figure these things out because the consumer will decide what's best now and when it makes sense to move on.

In the meantime, keep improving the ICE and invest in alternatives that come to market when it makes sense...practically and economically. After all, you don't want your surgeon using a new technique simply because Medicare is spiffing him/her to that end, right? These are corrupt enough times as it is, so allow the inherent democratic nature of the market to work and we'll all be a lot better off.

 

Having had an Audi e-tron for a bit until I was made an offer I couldn't refuse, I think four fundamentals need addressing: weight, range, cost, and infrastructure. Our e-tron had about 220 miles of useable range (not near enough) and while the weight was down low, it was ponderous as hell. I looked as a Taycan and came away with the feeling the first two had been fixed, but the last two had not. It also has dreadful ergonomics (for me). That said, I also think we're close to some real battery revolutions (agree on the solid state note)...and at that point...sorry, it'll be game over for ICE for most consumers.

 

What you are saying was also said back in 1898 about changing from Horse and buggy to ICE buggies.
The exact date of the sale was March 24, 1898, and about a week later — on April 1, 1898 — I received payment and shipped the car to its new owner, Robert Allison, a mechanical engineer of Port Carbon, Pennsylvania. I bought it back after Allison had used it a few years, and it is now in the Smithsonian Institution, in Washington.

When I first contemplated the application of gasoline for vehicles, I had a bicycle plant in Cleveland. Because bikes interested me, my mind naturally turned to something a rider wouldn’t have to push and keep pushing if he was trying to get some place. But the great obstacle to the development of the automobile was the lack of public inter- est. To advocate replacing the horse, which had served man through centuries, marked one as an imbecile. Things are very different today. But in the ’90s, even though I had a successful bicycle business, and was building my first car in the privacy of the cellar in my home, I began to be pointed out as “the fool who is fiddling with a buggy that will run without being hitched to a horse.” My banker called on me to say: “Winton, I am disappointed in you.”

That riled me, but I held my temper as I asked, “What’s the matter with you?” He bellowed: “There’s nothing the matter with me. It’s you! You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.”

From my pocket I took a clipping from the New York World of November 17, 1895, and asked him to read it. He brushed it aside. I insisted. It was an interview with Thomas A. Edison: “Talking of horseless carriage suggests to my mind that the horse is doomed. The bicycle, which, 10 years ago, was a curiosity, is now a necessity. It is found everywhere. Ten years from now you will be able to buy a horseless vehicle for what you would pay today for a wagon and a pair of horses. The money spent in the keep of the horses will be saved and the danger to life will be much reduced.”

 

Having leased an EV from 2015-2018 and owning a plug in hybrid now, the U.S. is in no way ready for EVs. I, personally, think that EVs are not the future (neither is ICE).

 

EVs are grossly lacking in infrastructure. Even if there are whatever DC fast chargers out there, half the time the chargers are broken or not functioning at max capacity. Tesla's the only one that has half a decent network, and even those do not get 300 miles of range in the same amount of time it takes to fill a ICE car. That's without even talking about whether or not the grid can support the power draw for all the chargers. I could see a world perhaps in the next 10 years where EVs are the major market, but right now we're a few technological revolutions behind that. In the mean time, plug in hybrids make more sense for the average person that can just shove the thing in the wall overnight.

 

ICEVs with sustainable fuel are the way to go!

 

And very inefficient in use of precious minerals. Heavy EVs lugging massive batteries about isn't the way to go. Volvo has said that making an EV has 70% more carbon emissions than making an ICEV, that's hardly a win for the environment. Better to keep using the already built ICEVs.

 

Not really, as government was MUCH smaller and had little direct impact on the conversion. Today, government is in your face at every turn.

I have no particular dog in this race [other than suggesting that the ICE is the heart and soul of a sports car]. Being connected to your performance car's engine through the incredible sounds it makes [as well as the sub-sonic vibrations] is something all F-type enthusiasts should be invested in. What takes the place of the average commuter vehicle is whatever makes the most sense [as it should be].

 

Yeah I also read that Volvo said it would take a new EV to cover 50,000 miles before it becomes Carbon Neutral...

the infrastructure in the UK isn't ready for EV's either, range is the most crucial thing and at the moment the battery technology isn't there yet, in time it probably will be but as stated by others, the bigger the battery the more weight is added to the vehicle.

Another thing I don't like is when EV's breakdown, one broke down near me and it blocked the road for 4 hours.....nobody could move the vehicle until specialist recovery turned up.

 

This kind of scenario is depressingly common in our economy, too much early enthusiasm followed by too much money allocated to the wrong places, followed by a crash until the rest of the system catches up. EVs will occupy one of several niches in the universe of zero emission vehicles, each optimized for it's intended use. It is just going to take more time - maybe lots - for the market to figure how best to allocate the capital and development effort, both in rolling stock and infrastructure.

 

It'll just take a few more car parks full of EVs to burn down before people realise the error of their ways .....

 

The response below is from Bard, Google's AI. Take it for what you think it's worth, no need to start a debate about AI trustworthiness, right? We all have our own opinions on that.

The exact number of miles it takes before an electric car is carbon neutral depends on several factors, including the type of car, the electricity mix in your area, and how you drive. However, studies have shown that electric cars are typically carbon neutral after being driven between 20,000 and 50,000 miles.

This is because electric cars produce no tailpipe emissions, so they do not contribute directly to air pollution. However, the electricity used to charge electric cars does produce emissions. The amount of emissions depends on the source of the electricity. For example, electricity generated from coal produces more emissions than electricity generated from renewable sources such as solar and wind power.

In areas with a high reliance on renewable energy, electric cars can be carbon neutral after being driven as few as 10,000 miles. In areas with a high reliance on fossil fuels, electric cars may take up to 50,000 miles to become carbon neutral.

Even when accounting for the emissions from electricity generation, electric cars are still significantly cleaner than gasoline-powered cars. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, electric cars produce about 60% fewer greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline-powered cars over their lifetime.

So, while it may take some time for an electric car to become carbon neutral, it is still a much cleaner option than a gasoline-powered car. And, as the electricity grid continues to shift towards renewable energy sources, electric cars will become even cleaner over time.

Here are some additional factors that can affect the number of miles it takes for an electric car to become carbon neutral:

• The size and efficiency of the battery: Larger and more efficient batteries will require less electricity to charge, which will reduce emissions.
• The driving habits of the owner: Drivers who drive more aggressively will produce more emissions than drivers who drive more conservatively.
• The type of charging infrastructure available: Cars that are charged using renewable energy sources such as solar panels will become carbon neutral much faster than cars that are charged using fossil fuels.

Overall, electric cars are a much cleaner option than gasoline-powered cars, and the number of miles it takes for them to become carbon neutral is decreasing as the electricity grid shifts towards renewable energy sources. If you are considering buying an electric car, you can use a calculator like the EPA's Greenhouse Gas Emissions Calculator to estimate the lifetime emissions of your car and compare them to the emissions of a gasoline-powered car.

 

The Biden administration is pushing for widespread electrification in less than 20 years through government subsidies and coercive regulations as part of its aggressive climate agenda. The truth is that President Joe Biden’s goals are an illusion at the expense of the American people.

While EV proponents try to claim that EVs will soon be cheaper than gasoline vehicles, our new research demonstrates that EVs benefitted from hidden subsidies that total nearly $50,000 per EV.

Who is footing that bill? Gasoline vehicle owners, taxpayers, and utility ratepayers are.

https://realclearwire.com/articles/2...sy_994010.html

This is what happens when you mix political fantasy with reality.

Just like all the other non-sense, all of us are paying for these EV's. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am getting tired of bending over for every damn scam that comes down the pike.

Although I like Elon Musk and have great respect for his incredible accomplishments, time to cut that freeloader off!