Will I be able to reverse the tuning before my scheduled maintenance with the manufacturer? ECUTuningGroup claims that their tuning is undetectable by the manufacturer? Any truth to this?

 

Ooooh this is worth getting a bowl of popcorn out. The thread went all over the place the last time this was brought up that I still don't even know what the real answer is.

 

Can you direct me to this thread?

 

From what I know about my research into this, you can remove the tune and put the stock ECU file back, If you have a handheld tuner or laptop with the proper connection. (Some tuners provide this with the tune). Then you can reflash back to the "tuned" file whenever you want.

Without a handheld unit to flash your ECU though, theoretically you CAN put the stock file back, but you need the hardware to do so.

Personally, I am waiting another month until I have my yearly visit, and O2 update done, then I'll get a flash from someone...

As to being undetectable...

 

Sorry I'm not sure on the exact thread. You could probably do a forum search for ECUTuningGroup or ETG and find some of their threads or customer threads. I believe it was in one of those.

 

I think it was in the Eurocharged tune thread..

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...e-tune-145479/

 

I'm not going to comment on the "detectability" topic because that's where things get heated.

However, I think it is safe to say that there is no reason to flash back to stock for routine service visits and non-engine related warranty repairs. There is no reason a dealer would be looking for evidence of a tune unless they are dealing with an engine meltdown, and in that case, it's a little too late to flash back to stock.

 

Well frankly, pretty much all aftermarket tunes leave a fingerprint of some kind.

The most common being a DTC of code P167F-00.



This code has popped up on cars that have been tuned by various people (not naming names) and it can only be read by the Jaguar Land Rover SDD diagnostic system, what the dealers have. A generic OBD scanner will not see it.

You are looking at a screenshot from SDD.

This code is stored in multiple modules, not just the ECU(PCM) and it is there permanently, it cannot be cleared, it will always come back even if the original factory tune get's reloaded, by a tuner, or by a dealer.

The PCM (or engine ECU) also has a flash counter which records how many times and when the ECU gets reflashed, regardless of which type of device does the flashing.

I am aware of one tuner who is working on a way of being able to flash the ECU without the flash counter tripping. If they want to join this thread and discuss it it's up to them.

There is much contention about this. I have had several people tell me that they can flash a tune without the P167F-00 coming up. But I am yet to see a screenshot from SDD of a tuned car that does not show P167F-00, so until then I am waiting, waiting, waiting...

Now, does a dealer care if your car has been tuned? Probably not.

Does Jaguar care if your car has been tuned? Good question... I think there is some interest, given that this P167F-00 only was added in the last few years.

Does the P167F-00 void the powertrain warranty on your car? I don't have the answer to that. And there are many many opinions on this subject.

If your car has the P167F-00 in it, it's POINTLESS to flash back to the factory tune, the code will still be there regardless.

 

Precisely. During routine maintenance they are most likely not looking for any kind of tune to the ECU.

 

The manufacturers are not dummies. I won't get into the controversy here regarding non-detectability, but I will say that there are plenty of guys that ended up with $12,000 and up repair bills on their still under warranty diesel pick up trucks that had supposedly reversible and/or non-detectible tunes. Even the common approach of having two ECU's does not work as there are then hours and miles that don't match properly with the TCM and BCM and more. P.S. regarding the honesty aspect it is likely fraud ya now to try to get powertrain warranty coverage after a tune and subsequent failure. Just wait until you are out of warranty, or accept the responsibility (ah now there is a concept for today's world).

 

Can Apple tell if you've jail beaked your iPhone, I'd say yes. When I took my F150 in, they said they would do any software updates. It's just stock, but I would assume if the ecu had been messed with, their computer would have told them. But maybe not. But like 64vette said, their not dummies.

 

Some random thoughts about tuning (not specific to Jaguar)...

--Know thy tuner's capability.

--A good tune is rewarding; A bad tune is more than just the opposite (of rewarding).

--Know the risk-reward of a tune, especially where warranties are concerned;

--Never trust a claim of an undetectable tune. Traces likely remain behind...somewhere. This is not to say a tuner is or is not trustworthy.

--The likelihood of a tune being discovered during a maintenance visit to the dealer is very low.

--Tunes usually work until they don’t; Have the capability to restore the OEM tune.

--There is no guarantee a stored DTC won’t show up during a dealer visit and prompt further inspection.

--Moss-Magnuson helps deter claims of warranty abuse; but, the law is not absolute guarantee of protection.

--Nothing prevents either manuf or dealer reps from reading forum discussions.

--Even after restoring the OEM tune, the operating parameters under which the tune previously performed (e.g., boost pressure increase, tricked out sensor readings, e.g., TMAP/MAP, etc.) are likely recorded in the PCM... somewhere.

 

They don't have to be looking for a tune. Just reading the codes in the car (for any reason at all) will show the code.

I highly doubt the technician will go running to his manager yelling "boss! boss! this car has a tune in it!" or in many cases the tech doesn't even look at the codes during a regular service, they just reset the service indicator and move on.

 

You expressed much more clearly what I intended when I said dealers generally have no reason (or motivation) to look for it, even though the code may be readily available. As independent businesses, they have plenty of motivation to ignore it and keep customers happy. That is unless they have no choice but to deal with it in the case of a major engine repair because they have to ensure that JLR is going to reimburse them.

I wasn't going to say it because it usually makes somebody very angry, but I'm glad you made it clear that "flashing back to stock" isn't going to help you in any way. Once re-flashed, the code will always be there, unless some genius out there figures a way around it, but even that will only be temporary. This whole subject reminds me of the "arms race" between "black hat hackers" and IT security forces.

 

Hey Cambo what's up with the Russian software? Are they the experts on vehicular software programs?? When I think of Russia all I think of is natural resources, like oil, natural gas and vodka!

 

I got the picture from a friend in Russia, that's all.

The software is in many languages.

 

+1.

 

I've worked for BMW for over 10 years, I've only heard of 2 cases where a warranty was voided due to a tune. The tunes are detectable by Field Service Engineers with special software they use, but it is rare that they ever get involved with everyday warranty repairs.

 

I'm sure that's true due to the fact that engine failures are very rare in today's engines, and it's hard to run even a highly-tuned engine very often at high power levels in street use. However, you confirm that absent an engine failure, a tune will likely not cause you any warranty grief.

 

Exactly