Hello All,

What I want to know is: Is there such a thing as a Jaguar time bomb?

(Bear with me here!)

The reason I ask is this: apart from my Jag project, I have a 1990 Mercedes-Benz 300CE-24. This was, until late last year, my daily driver. The problem is that the Ignition Control Module went bang.

Now we've all heard horror stories about old prestige cars and expensive 'little black boxes'. I was mentally prepared for this as it's just the nature of the beast(s).

However! My mechanic (a long time respected Mercedes specialist) told me the bad news was that the failure of this module "often decommissions the car"! Mercedes asks an awful lot for the part (more on that later - or skip to the end for the $$ punchline...). As a result, second hand ones are highly sought after and getting rarer by the day. The last client he had with this problem had to wait 3 months to find one.

I got impatient (my three months is up) and decided 'how bad could it really be'. Rang Mercedes. The cost for the little black box about the size of a coffee mug?

$A11,266.00

So! My question is - has anyone ever come across a similar thing with electronic-era Jags? Or does Jaguar have better respect for it's fans and customers?

Love to hear what you've heard as, like a lot of us, there are a number of models on my Jag-et list that would fall into this category.

Cheers,

Tony.

 

Many people will have different views.

Different models/specs whatever have different attitudes.

Always bear in mind that very little is actually "Jaguar made", it is components from the likes of Bosch/Lucas/Nippon Denso/Borg Warner/ZF/Ford, that make up the car/s. Much like Holden down here, lots of outside supplies making bits for many car makes, and when they fail, obviously the badge on the car gets blamed, and I have NO tolerence for that attitude.

OK, OK, Jag did some dumb stuff, but in all my years and the hundreds of thousands of KMs I have travelled, NEVER ever been let down by some "time bomb".

Lack of proper maintenance by previous humans is always at the root of any failure.

Mine goes as follows:

1) V12 cars, overheat it, and $6K to rebuild the engine. NOT Jaguars fault, purely "the nut behind the wheel".

2) These "sealed for life transmissions" are possibly the closest to a "time bomb" in ANY car. That trans fluid MUST be serviced, albeit at a longer time span than the "old days", and some of the "special oils" are pricey, and owners complain, so it dont get done, then fails, then $4K later the Jag gets bagged, mmm.

3) Engine bay wiring, mostly V12's, is well documented as causing grief.

5) Just plain and simple lack of proper servicing, and any form of TLC will cost you plenty.

Example:

My '85 XJ-S V12, purchased in 1996@ 120000kms, came with impeccable dealer service records. Over the next 4 years, engine rebuild, engine bay rewired, trans refreshed, rear suspension rebuilt, front suspension rebuilt, cooling system rebuilt with thermo fans, air con upgraded to R134a spec with a Sanden compressor, and lots of little odds and ends. ALL done by me, my way. Car then back as the daily driver, and twice around the coast road of Australia (looooong way), and way too many interstate trips as the urge took us. When the car was retired it had travelling a further 240000km (post my rebuilding) and never ever had a hissy.

Her '76 XJ12 487000kms and still going strong.

My now daily X300, 62000kms in just over 3 years, NO issues to speak of.

Daughters S2 XJ6, who knows how many, she cares for it, but in 8 years NO phone calls to "come and get me the car broke".

 

The later model Jaguars, like those from other manufacturers are becoming more reliant on 'black boxes'. We find more modules introduced with each new model.

Even when the vehicles are current, none of these electronics are low cost. The new buyer isn't concerned because warranty takes care of failures. As the vehicles get older and lose their value, replacing any of the modules represents an increasing proportion of the value of the vehicle.

If there is sufficient demand, someone usually spots an opportunity and aftermarket repairers or suppliers step in to fill the gap.

My main concern along the lines you describe is not so much that the parts become unavailable or uneconomical but that the supporting expertise and technology to program them to the vehicles either disappears or becomes so rare that only the very best 'collectible' cars make it worthwhile.

Graham

 

The pre-2000 V8 engines have a real time bomb - secondary timing chain tensioners which fail and blow up the engine.

 

Air compressor in the X350 is a question of when, not if.

 

Well, ECUs (by way of example of a typical magic "Black Box") are available from Eurojag, to name but one, for between £35 for an XJ8 unit to £150 for a 3.0 diesel XF one. The latter is a little pricey to be sure, but a long ways from a "decommission-the-car" job, surely?

 

Since Mercedes was specifically mentioned, their '90s vehicles do have a time bomb as did Volvo.

biodegradable engine harness wiring.

The problem is that the wiring "biodegraded" whether the car was still in use or not. Completely misguided as it caused more vehicles to go to landfill which more than offset the minor saving of the insulation evaporating.

Furthermore, mice find the organic compounds rather tasty.

Can you imagine the joy of manufacturers that the government actually pushed them into a "green" initiative that is completely equivalent in effect to planned obsolesence? "The government made us do it!"

Bureaucrats who want to mandate "green" should focus on keeping existing shells on the road via durability standards and availability of reasonably priced repair parts. Every shell that stays on the road is a shell that stays out of landfill.


@OP ...
you might want to consider whether it is the module itself or the harness in light of the above

 

Well and fine, but it is also completely equivalent in effect to building cars that evaporate if parked for a while. Quality? We've heard of it!!

 

At least Lucas wiring wasn't designed to actually disintegrate. And if something did go wrong you could generally cobble together some kind of fix.

 

Have you tried ModuleMasters or similar module repair shops to mend the old one? Unless it had a thermal event and melted down or something, usually it comes down to a broken circuit or blown mosfet or some such, which is normally repairable by folks with good eyes, steady hand, small tools and a bit of knowlege.
Case-in-point from the Jag world - ABS module is famous for broken motor traces. $1300-$1800 new, I believe, but utility knife, soldering iron, solder, magnifier, and RTV sealant quite a bit cheaper. On the other hand, the X300 clock module is also a built-in failure but for me, much more of a mystery to fix involving ribbon-cables and other tiny bits - so shipped it off to Module-masters for the ~$100 fix.

 

Hmm. Friend of mine had terrible trouble recently with a bi-xenon headlamp in a 2005 Merc E270. Put two or three ballast units into it, no use. Terrible runaround from the dealers, etc - the usual disaster, and him despairing of ever getting a steady, working headlamp. He calls me up almost in tears, and a day or two later I'm able to aqcuire a Bosch H7 HID ballast unit from a mate of mine, and all it cost me was an old Maxton shock out of an FZR1000! ;o) Well it worked like a dream. One happy chappy. The point of all this is, sometimes OE components are crap, and sometimes you can acquire really good quality kit for half-nothing that does a much, much better job. But none of this applies to Jags. Jags are, as we all know, of supreme quality. Unlike some!

 

But at least we have now 'sourced' and 'signed up' a forum detainee, bagpipingandy.

He engineers and supplies a quality repair kit. Around £35 GBP.

My XJ40 is definitely BioDegradable, the iron oxide is now turning into dust and the grass around it is thriving.

 

The other area to consider is the connector itself.
As vehicles become old, the experts that knew how all the electronics worked and the diagnostics equipment required, become unavailable; our options to repair diminish. It's not jut cars; industrial equipment suffers the same fate. Aircraft, however, require much more stringent maintenance and documentation; one reason why there are 30+ yer old aircraft still in service. Granted, they get upgrades installed as they mature. A strong case to replace defective systems with more up to date equivalents...