The residual oil at the end of the dipstick is always right at hand.

 

I oil them anyways. No problem with over torquing because no one else ever gets to torque them. I know the oil is there and tighten accordingly.

 

Once skills, experience and common sense are acquired, they don't decline.

The problem is the internet. Too much information. And most of it is regurgitated as if it was gospel without fact checking. It causes a lot of unecessary second guessing.

 

Yes ...

... but it has already been calculated or determined. That is what the manufacturer spec is all about.

What is difficult for some people to grasp is the the conversion from one system to the other. If you work backwards from the fact that the clamping force for a particular thread fastening system is a function of rotational angle, then it is possible to do the conversion on a rough basis from a specific torque by means of experimentation. It is a rough estimation because you cannot guarantee that the friction component is exactly the same as that found in the lab, or estimated, at the time the spec was created. It may even be that the published torque specification was calculated from the rotational angle to begin with.

 

No it isn't. I change plugs from the other side of the engine !

I've heard others suggest the same. I always forget to try it. It would be less messy than the anti-seize which, no matter how careful a person is, somehow manages to migrate from the tip of an index finger all the way up to the elbow :-)

Cheers
DD

 

What was the question again?

 

The question was how to remove anti-seize off one's fingers as it seems to get everywhere…. It is a great product, but as I note, different people have different opinions and you know what? That's okay. I have been busting my knuckles since 1969 and have been around the world a few times and seen a lady with a mustache. Anyhow, I try to learn something new each day or I consider it a waste.

I have learned there are often two schools of though on every issue. One is from the school of hard knocks & experience. The other is from schools such as technical, engineering, and colleges. There are times when the answer to a question results in the clashing of the two schools with regard to a question such as the one which I asked at the beginning. But the answer in my humble opinion is whatever really works for you. Get a room full of technicians and engineers and look out. The technicians will often end up showing the engineers how it's really done.

I am a member of the IATN & have somewhat of a backdoor engineering degree as well as over 40 years experience in maintaining my own cars. There have been times when I've had a frozen widget and had to use heat, liquid wrench, or a 3/4" impact wrench to loosen a frozen nut or I've simply broken a wheel stud or ended up having to cut a nut off after the nut became galled to a stud. So the use of something whether it be anti-seize or even oil from a dipstick may have prevented the galling process- I really don't know. But galling, over-torquing, galvanic corrosion can happen and we ultimately have to deal with it.

I have found it is good to understand the basics of whatever it is I'm doing. But it's ultimately up to me or you to decide what product/method to use and move on with life. Otherwise we'll get caught up in minutia and miss out on what someone is trying to tell us from their school of thought/experience.

Back when I was first married, I was unable to afford much of anything such as anti-seize and I dealt with in. On my 84 Volvo, after 20 years many screws and nuts were galled and I simply left them alone. I drove the car for 24 years and changed the oil with just regular oil & performed other routine maintenance. The frame rotted from the inside out. On my 93 Civic which has over 300K miles and is still a daily driver, I used on synthetic in it and extended my oil change interval to 7.5K- 10K miles and it still is on the road. I used anti-seize on the Civic and never had a problem. At one point when my kids were home, I was maintaining 6 cars and opted for synthetic and simply started changing the oil once a year using synthetic as I just didn't have enough time to do an oil change every 3K from back in the old days to 5K intervals to 7.5K on my Civic or 10K as recommended for the X-Type.

I knew a guy when I was a kid who changed his oil once a month because he wanted to remove the 'dirty' oil. He did not understand the "dirt" was simply carbon residue from the combustion process. But to each their own. This guy still changed his oil once a month with only Valvoline for the rest of his life- why? Because he could.

 

Wow!

I'll add my $0.02 to the original question:

1) I use the smallest amount of anti-seize as possible. (minor swipe at one point on the item I will be tightening) I use a glove to apply.

2) I tend to use anti-seize on spark plugs I will be installing on aluminum heads. I hand tighten and always use a torque wrench (easily) or manufacturers instructions. (1/2 turn after contact with the head) - Never over tighten!

3) On my Jaguar - I use anti-seize on all lug nuts as described above... and this is after ruining 2 rims cause of the rusted 2 piece lug nuts... Thanks Jaguar! I do not use anti-seize on any other lug nuts on any of my other vehicles though...

 

Backherz- you know you're really playing with fire by even mentioning o*l (see, I can't even spell it out in full) on a car forum.

Kinda like saying 'Betelgeuse' more than twice. Careful!

 

ok .. right at hand as opposed to actually interrupting the job .. walking to the store because the car is now minus plugs .. actually shelling out good cash for something that will get lost in the back of the toolbox .. walking back .. through the snow .. against the wind .. the store is closed at 3am anyways .. what was i doing again? .. and what is this leaky tube of greasy stuff underneath the spare bulbs for the '66 Rambler?

 

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I'll chime in with my two cents........about spark plugs, anyway.

I had the subject of the attached NGK bulletin pounded into my melon many, many moons ago, by a [then] old guy who taught me a bunch about being a technician. I've lived by it ever since.


Cheers,

 

This is all very well but tell us more about the lady with the moustache.

 

The document begins with ...

As a whole, the document is accurate within its scope.

But notice that it addresses lack of knowledge on the part of the operator and resultant operator error.

It also fails to address uncertainty. Even if the new plugs are installed dry, the old plugs may have been installed wet. Use the dry torque value and the risk potential is the same.

This can be addressed by installing wet and using the appropriate torque value. Then it becomes a problem for the next guy.

It can also be addressed using angle torquing as it is insensitive to the problem.

Somehow, angle torquing is regarded as inferior to using a torque wrench. Perhaps because it does not require a special tool. But it is far more accurate and dry/wet becomes immaterial with regard to clamping force.

All of the brand name spark plug manufacturers publish torque angle guidance for each type of thread and sealing interface. As long as it is the same type of plug, it is fairly safe to use the brand x angle with brand z because the interfaces are the same and the principles apply equally.

And then there is the official Jaguar engine assembly manual ... it calls for anti-seize and even has a diagram of where and how much material to apply. They also call for a brush. In short, the manual is very specific about the requirement.

 

The lady with a mustache was in Greece…
The attachment which xjrguy included pictures I had recently seen which
did not include any explanation. At least I am getting to better understand
the picture and the reason(s) for some of the different techniques. As long as
I understand the potential of my actions, then I am ultimately responsible for
what I do or don't do.

 

The ford service manuals warn against the use of anti seize on lug nuts and studs.Also many times cars have come into the shop for warped rotors after a tire replacement and every time the lug nuts and studs were coated with A.S.But i have used A.S. on the wheel to rotor mounting surface(very lightly)to ward off corrosion.

 

I took the liberty to contact AC Delco, Champion, Autolite,Bosch & NGK and the only answer I got back is this from ACDelco….. so far.

“Thank you for writing us back regarding your request of information on the use of Anti-Seize compound with spark plug applications.

Please be advised that we, the Internet Response Team have limited resources with this kind of concern. We regret any inconvenience this may cause you. For this reason, we suggest you contact your local dealership.

You may also contact our ACDelco Customer Assistance Center at (1-800-223-3526) for further assistance.



Regards,

ACDelco Internet Response Team”

Until I get an answer with real information I will continue to use Anti-Seize on my plug install……….!

 

Holy heck, I knew lugnuts would be in here somewhere.

Spark plugs, your average owner uses a garage to change them once every whenever. 10k - 100k service intervals.

Anti seize, who gives a thought, unless either one is planning weird maintenance schedules or very long term ownership.

Yes my experience is from non computer controlled vehicles when we usually had to pull plugs, distributor parts, and place injectors in a squirt test environment.

No, I do not use anti seize on plugs, but have a tendency to oil threads on old iron heads.

The intriguing question is, how often do the owners who ask the question actually pull the plugs?

 

some USA Ford engines ,modular types OHC, V8s and V10s, aluminum heads, when removing the plugs actually ripped the aluminum threads from the head.

they had a # of TBs on the subject, and the price of chnging plugs went from $200. to as much as $3000., pulling heads etc,.

 

That's the TSB to which I referred. The technique outlined in the TSB is quite a bit better that just reefing it harder when the plug does not want to come out. Time consuming, but much better than needing thread inserts or new heads.

 

Wow - great thread!

I'd be grateful if anyone can tell me the angular torque for when I replace my STR's plugs (or how to go about finding or calculating it). I'll be using NGK IFR5N10 plugs I believe.

I plan to look in JTIS about whether I'm supposed to use anti-seize and if so which but do tell if you happen to know.

I rather doubt the car will last till the plug change after this but can hope!!