XJ8: Which years to avoid?
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From: Sebastopol, CA
XJ8: Which years to avoid?
I drive a '92 XJ6 VdP with 215,000 miles and am looking to upgrade. I was leaning towards a 2004 VdP with 76,000 miles for $12k but am concerned by some of the posts I have read: engine cut-out, vibrations, etc.
Are there "good" years and "bad" years?
P.S.
I was stricken by the Jag Bug when my father bought his first, a 1962 Mark II and was confimed when he bought a 1964 XKE. (God, I wish I had that car instead of just the little crescent wrench from the tool kit I "took" the day he sold the car.)
AND AM GLAD THAT THE BUG IS ALIVE AND WELL - I LOVE JAGs!
Are there "good" years and "bad" years?
P.S.
I was stricken by the Jag Bug when my father bought his first, a 1962 Mark II and was confimed when he bought a 1964 XKE. (God, I wish I had that car instead of just the little crescent wrench from the tool kit I "took" the day he sold the car.)
AND AM GLAD THAT THE BUG IS ALIVE AND WELL - I LOVE JAGs!
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 630
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From: California
You are a new member so I will address it. Otherwise its been a pretty worn out topic on the forum recently. I will only state my opinions, but you know what they say about opinions...?
From 98 to 2000 inclusive, XJ8s were equipped with nikasil lined engines. Many of these engines encountered cracks in the cylinder walls due to sulfur rich gasoline back in the times and had to be scrapped. To avoid a national recall and be on the hook for years after the warranty has expired, Jaguar went about very quietly replacing any and all damaged engines in cars that were under warranty with no questions asked. You will encounter many schools of thought here on nikasil, including those that will swear by these motors. The proponents for nikasil motors state that if the motor has made it this far, it will never go bad. Problem is that nikasil doesn't really "advertise" that its going bad, like a head gasket for example. It just goes. Problem here is that the cylinders cannot be resurfaced and you end up with a nice boat anchor. A replacement engine can run you as much as the car, if not more. In case you decide on a nikasil equipped car, be sure to run a compression test. Compression test should be a must, on nikasil engines ever more so.
A-drums in automatic transmissions like to go bad. Early style water pumps with their plastic impellers and plastic thermostat housings are an issue as well. And of course, lets not forget the brilliant idea of installing plastic secondary timing chain tensioners. The A-drums, water pumps and thermostats are issues associated with normally (not supercharged) aspirated cars. The tensioners are common problem across the board.
I ALWAYS recommend a pre-purchase inspection. You will spend few $$ but you will get a piece of mind. Have a Jaguar master tech do it and he/she will share the issues that these cars can run into.
Good is pretty much anything 2001 and later, with 2003 considered to be the best. As a rule of thumb, I stay away from any luxury cars on independent used car lots or those that had more owners than McDonalds had customers. Go for the cleanest one you can find in your price range, even if it means stepping down a year or two. Take a look at 97 XJ6 as the 4.0 in-line 6 was perhaps the best engine Jag built.
I suggest you do a little forum surfing here to get more in-depth info. Good luck in your quest.
From 98 to 2000 inclusive, XJ8s were equipped with nikasil lined engines. Many of these engines encountered cracks in the cylinder walls due to sulfur rich gasoline back in the times and had to be scrapped. To avoid a national recall and be on the hook for years after the warranty has expired, Jaguar went about very quietly replacing any and all damaged engines in cars that were under warranty with no questions asked. You will encounter many schools of thought here on nikasil, including those that will swear by these motors. The proponents for nikasil motors state that if the motor has made it this far, it will never go bad. Problem is that nikasil doesn't really "advertise" that its going bad, like a head gasket for example. It just goes. Problem here is that the cylinders cannot be resurfaced and you end up with a nice boat anchor. A replacement engine can run you as much as the car, if not more. In case you decide on a nikasil equipped car, be sure to run a compression test. Compression test should be a must, on nikasil engines ever more so.
A-drums in automatic transmissions like to go bad. Early style water pumps with their plastic impellers and plastic thermostat housings are an issue as well. And of course, lets not forget the brilliant idea of installing plastic secondary timing chain tensioners. The A-drums, water pumps and thermostats are issues associated with normally (not supercharged) aspirated cars. The tensioners are common problem across the board.
I ALWAYS recommend a pre-purchase inspection. You will spend few $$ but you will get a piece of mind. Have a Jaguar master tech do it and he/she will share the issues that these cars can run into.
Good is pretty much anything 2001 and later, with 2003 considered to be the best. As a rule of thumb, I stay away from any luxury cars on independent used car lots or those that had more owners than McDonalds had customers. Go for the cleanest one you can find in your price range, even if it means stepping down a year or two. Take a look at 97 XJ6 as the 4.0 in-line 6 was perhaps the best engine Jag built.
I suggest you do a little forum surfing here to get more in-depth info. Good luck in your quest.
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 120,439
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From: Durham, UK
Welcome to the forum MarcusJames,
XJ8 includes models X308 1997-2003 and X350 2003-2009. As a general rule, the later years in any model benefit from developments and improvements. However, far outweighing this is how well a vehicle has been maintained. When assessing any potential Jaguar purchase, vehicle history is crucial. More than "good" years and "bad" years, it's the PO and maintenance that makes a good used Jaguar.
Check the 'HOW TO' threads at the top of each tech section for regular issues such as tensioners and cooling system on early V8's.
When you get a minute, please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST section and post some info about yourself and your VdP for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice on posting to the forum.
Graham
XJ8 includes models X308 1997-2003 and X350 2003-2009. As a general rule, the later years in any model benefit from developments and improvements. However, far outweighing this is how well a vehicle has been maintained. When assessing any potential Jaguar purchase, vehicle history is crucial. More than "good" years and "bad" years, it's the PO and maintenance that makes a good used Jaguar.
Check the 'HOW TO' threads at the top of each tech section for regular issues such as tensioners and cooling system on early V8's.
When you get a minute, please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST section and post some info about yourself and your VdP for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice on posting to the forum.
Graham
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Joined: Apr 2013
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From: Sebastopol, CA
Tirefriar
I spent 9 years in Catholic schools and appreciate your handle!
I also appreciate your helping me with redundant info.
With 220,000 on my '92 with no smoke on decel-the-accel, I appreciate the bullet proof straight 6. It's just that the rear door handles don't work, the front passenger's needs a knee in the door panel to open it (yes, this is true!!), the rubber is old and not so quiet, the A/C has been replaced once and needs it again. (My mistake; ALWAYS replace the high pressure hoses - they are crush-to-seal fittings and can only be crushed once!). The "Tape Deck" won't accept a CD converter - it just spits it back out. Small things really, but they add up!
My thoughts on upgrading involved the Al body and 6-speed tranny. These have got to be good upgrades for mileage, no?! But, as your post indicates, not all Jags purr like cats.
I'll search for the years you've indicated and see what's up.
I see you too are in CA. I'm outside Santa Rosa. You ?
I spent 9 years in Catholic schools and appreciate your handle!
I also appreciate your helping me with redundant info.
With 220,000 on my '92 with no smoke on decel-the-accel, I appreciate the bullet proof straight 6. It's just that the rear door handles don't work, the front passenger's needs a knee in the door panel to open it (yes, this is true!!), the rubber is old and not so quiet, the A/C has been replaced once and needs it again. (My mistake; ALWAYS replace the high pressure hoses - they are crush-to-seal fittings and can only be crushed once!). The "Tape Deck" won't accept a CD converter - it just spits it back out. Small things really, but they add up!
My thoughts on upgrading involved the Al body and 6-speed tranny. These have got to be good upgrades for mileage, no?! But, as your post indicates, not all Jags purr like cats.
I'll search for the years you've indicated and see what's up.
I see you too are in CA. I'm outside Santa Rosa. You ?
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 120,439
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From: Durham, UK
The description 'shade tree mechanic with a love for Jags' applies to most of us here.
Graham
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From: Crewe, England
You could try looking for an X300 model of XJ6, only made for a very short time before Ford forced the V8 onto Jaguar engineers, (who at that time didnt really like V8s).
The X300 series of XJ saloons was in production from 1995 to 1997, and is basically the same as the car you have now, but with the Jaguar body "curves" put back in. These X300 cars soon became known as the car that put reliabiity back into Jaguar. Many owners were able to take these cars beyond 200,000 miles. However, not many were made, but if you're interested, there were a few 6 litre V12s produced as well as the 4 litre straight six.
What then followed in 1998 was the sad X308 saga of bad engines as described earlier. Things were only put right after 2001, and then in 2003 (2004 in the USA), the aluminium-bodied X350 cars came out, (I have one of these). The engine was completely sorted out, but a new 6-speed gearbox was used, which can have a few issues with software, and a leak from the wiring plug entry. ANd despite what Jaguar might say, benefit from replacement transmission fluid every 50-60k miles.
These X350s are a superb car for the money and are very reliable, but like all Jaguars need attention from time to time, like the gearbox software mentioned. Also the suspension components can see only a short life, but this depends a lot on how much owners throw the cars around on twisty roads.
So....Well worth going and having a look at an X300 (very cheap to buy), or an X350, ( not so cheap, but still very good on price)
The X300 series of XJ saloons was in production from 1995 to 1997, and is basically the same as the car you have now, but with the Jaguar body "curves" put back in. These X300 cars soon became known as the car that put reliabiity back into Jaguar. Many owners were able to take these cars beyond 200,000 miles. However, not many were made, but if you're interested, there were a few 6 litre V12s produced as well as the 4 litre straight six.
What then followed in 1998 was the sad X308 saga of bad engines as described earlier. Things were only put right after 2001, and then in 2003 (2004 in the USA), the aluminium-bodied X350 cars came out, (I have one of these). The engine was completely sorted out, but a new 6-speed gearbox was used, which can have a few issues with software, and a leak from the wiring plug entry. ANd despite what Jaguar might say, benefit from replacement transmission fluid every 50-60k miles.
These X350s are a superb car for the money and are very reliable, but like all Jaguars need attention from time to time, like the gearbox software mentioned. Also the suspension components can see only a short life, but this depends a lot on how much owners throw the cars around on twisty roads.
So....Well worth going and having a look at an X300 (very cheap to buy), or an X350, ( not so cheap, but still very good on price)
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From: Sebastopol, CA
Which years to avoid
This has been very valuable information - thank you.
It appears as though Jag was a little behind times with Dual Zone A/C and other amenities that luxury cars should have had and that this did not kick in until newer models.
Also, big for my kids are the rear seat picnic tables. I could not find any 2004 VDPs on eBay with them, but saw them again in 2005 models.
So, is the Al body worth holding out for? I'm very surprised that this did not lower the curb weight much at all - like ~50 pounds.
Again, thank you for your support here.
Marcus
It appears as though Jag was a little behind times with Dual Zone A/C and other amenities that luxury cars should have had and that this did not kick in until newer models.
Also, big for my kids are the rear seat picnic tables. I could not find any 2004 VDPs on eBay with them, but saw them again in 2005 models.
So, is the Al body worth holding out for? I'm very surprised that this did not lower the curb weight much at all - like ~50 pounds.
Again, thank you for your support here.
Marcus
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 630
Likes: 90
From: California
This has been very valuable information - thank you.
It appears as though Jag was a little behind times with Dual Zone A/C and other amenities that luxury cars should have had and that this did not kick in until newer models.
Also, big for my kids are the rear seat picnic tables. I could not find any 2004 VDPs on eBay with them, but saw them again in 2005 models.
So, is the Al body worth holding out for? I'm very surprised that this did not lower the curb weight much at all - like ~50 pounds.
Again, thank you for your support here.
Marcus
It appears as though Jag was a little behind times with Dual Zone A/C and other amenities that luxury cars should have had and that this did not kick in until newer models.
Also, big for my kids are the rear seat picnic tables. I could not find any 2004 VDPs on eBay with them, but saw them again in 2005 models.
So, is the Al body worth holding out for? I'm very surprised that this did not lower the curb weight much at all - like ~50 pounds.
Again, thank you for your support here.
Marcus
Picnic tables are a cool option that you can apply to a X308 or X300 jags by simply swapping out the seat backs for the ones that have tables. There was a thread very recently on the forum exactly about that. IMO, an X308 long wheel base would be a good balance between additional room, great price and the looks.
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From: Crewe, England
Well, despite what Tirefriar says, it seems aluminium is the metal of the future for Jaguar Land Rover anyway, as the new Range Rover is aluminium as is the current XJ, the XK and the new F-type. Also note that the Audi TT is mostly aluminium, as is the Audi A8, so this metal is not going to disappear any time soon !
Whilst Jaguar-certified aluminium repair shops have tried to put big money into repairs there are limits because if they load it up too much they get no work to pay off their investment, as the insurance companies just write the cars off instead.
What does occur to the aluminium shells is a nuisance issue called "filiform corrosion", found in certain well known places, (see previous posts by me). This is easily repaired and is not a car-killer like rust on steel shells.
For me the biggest issue with current Jaguars is what I call "unfair wear and tear" on suspension parts. We motorists expect balljoints and bushes to wear out and need replacement, but these seem to wear-out far too quickly with Jaguars, and then the parts are far too expensive. Having said that, the aftermarket suppliers are now selling identical parts at mostly half the price at Jaguar dealers, so this issue is not so serious as once it was.
I also am not too keen on the air suspension. I think it is far too complex, needlessly so, as the current XJ only has air suspension on the rear wheels, the fronts are steel coils. This complexity is also accompanied by very costly replacement air springs so faults are expensive to fix. Again, having said that, you can get Arnott replacements for a helluva lot less money. Here in Europe, we can only get Bilstein OE at £675 (=$1026) each !!
I can tell you that based on my experience, the X350 feels like a much smaller and lighter car to drive than my old XJ6. Of course, the car is physically large, but it doesn't seem like it to drive. This has to be the lower weight of the body, I'm sure.
Whilst Jaguar-certified aluminium repair shops have tried to put big money into repairs there are limits because if they load it up too much they get no work to pay off their investment, as the insurance companies just write the cars off instead.
What does occur to the aluminium shells is a nuisance issue called "filiform corrosion", found in certain well known places, (see previous posts by me). This is easily repaired and is not a car-killer like rust on steel shells.
For me the biggest issue with current Jaguars is what I call "unfair wear and tear" on suspension parts. We motorists expect balljoints and bushes to wear out and need replacement, but these seem to wear-out far too quickly with Jaguars, and then the parts are far too expensive. Having said that, the aftermarket suppliers are now selling identical parts at mostly half the price at Jaguar dealers, so this issue is not so serious as once it was.
I also am not too keen on the air suspension. I think it is far too complex, needlessly so, as the current XJ only has air suspension on the rear wheels, the fronts are steel coils. This complexity is also accompanied by very costly replacement air springs so faults are expensive to fix. Again, having said that, you can get Arnott replacements for a helluva lot less money. Here in Europe, we can only get Bilstein OE at £675 (=$1026) each !!
I can tell you that based on my experience, the X350 feels like a much smaller and lighter car to drive than my old XJ6. Of course, the car is physically large, but it doesn't seem like it to drive. This has to be the lower weight of the body, I'm sure.
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From: Sebastopol, CA
Jags: which years to avoid
Based on previous advice, I'm looking at '96-'97 and '01-'03 model XJ8 VDP/ XJR/ Super 's. I'd prefer the '01 to '03s as they have more amenities - as advised, the '96-'97 model is basically what I drive now.
My questions are:
Does the '01-'03 have the CATS suspension? If so, is it reliable?
Mention was made about having to rebuild the front ends of these every 50,000 miles or so. I rebuilt my '92 at 210,000 miles: Rack, A-arm bushing, tie rod ends. I would not mind doing it once or twice on a newer model, but every 50,000 miles seems excessive. How much life does one get from aftermarket parts?! NOTE: I live in the foothills and it's up and down every morning with few straight roads until I hit the freeway.
Thank again for the hand holding.
Marcus
My questions are:
Does the '01-'03 have the CATS suspension? If so, is it reliable?
Mention was made about having to rebuild the front ends of these every 50,000 miles or so. I rebuilt my '92 at 210,000 miles: Rack, A-arm bushing, tie rod ends. I would not mind doing it once or twice on a newer model, but every 50,000 miles seems excessive. How much life does one get from aftermarket parts?! NOTE: I live in the foothills and it's up and down every morning with few straight roads until I hit the freeway.
Thank again for the hand holding.
Marcus
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 271
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From: CT
My 1998 which I owned for 2.5 yrs used was perfect till I traded it in for my 2004 XJ VDP. It has never seen a dealer in 9yrs, is 100% perfect. Best car I've ever owned and a steal to buy for the book values. If someone gives me 20K its gone tomorrow but I won't let it go for 15K.
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From: Sebastopol, CA
'03 Super 8 in Portland Oregon - need someone to look
I've found a low mileage '03 Super 8 that I am intersted in.
Does anyone know anyone in the area that I can have look at the car?
It has 77k miles on it. What needs replacing right away?
(Anything plastic in the engine?!)
Marcus
Does anyone know anyone in the area that I can have look at the car?
It has 77k miles on it. What needs replacing right away?
(Anything plastic in the engine?!)
Marcus
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4
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From: Newport
Hello TF- where have you had succes identifying something like 97 xj-6. Independent lots seem about the only source. The occasional FSBO will pop up. Any thoughts, for the money I am going to give the 97 xj-6 a try.
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 630
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From: California
I don't recommend buying a Jag off an indie lot unless you perform a VERY thorough inspection by a Jag tech.
Very clean 97 XJ 6 should run no more than $5k. That would be pretty much the top of the market. At this price expect an under 100k mi car with service records and almost no issues. All major components should work correctly. Gold and silver colors will rend to oxidize but that's the nature of the beast. Good luck!
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