Just how awful is it to remove and then replace the starter on a 340? Any tips to use besides what the Haynes manual says?

 

This may seem extreme, but if I had to do it again, I would remove the carburetors to gain access.
I have a special 1/2 wrench that I modified to fit on easily.
I also have cleaned the threads and nuts to thread off with my fingers once they're loose.
I leave the plenum chamber on so they come off as a whole.

On my 340 the 2 heads on the bolts are welded to them selves with an arced piece of steel, but even with that, the upper nut can be a bear to get to.

With the carbs off, I think I reached in there from the top _ I laid on a bunch of packing blankets.

 

This is a post I wrote for the S type Forum several years ago on removing the starter motor on my 3.4s.
I have changed to a light weight high torque starter motor which is so much easier to get in and out. Smaller, lighter and easier to move around when under the car and the car starts first time every time as the motor spins the engine over so much quicker. .

"Today I tackled the startermotor. Because all the work is at the back of the engine the bonnet/hood had to come off. I then removed the air filter and alloy housing attached to the carbs. Next I did some electrical tests by connecting a live wire to the starter and an earth to the engine block and tried the startermotor. With a newly charged battery it was barely turning over so convinced it was not a wiring problem I started on the taking the motor out. Removed the electrical connection with a ½ spanner. Difficult to get to as it under the carbs.
Looked down the back of the engine to locate the top bolt and could not see it let alone get to it due to the heater water pipes. Several jubilee clips later and they were out of the way. Managed to get a 9/16 stubby spanner on the nut on the gearbox side and then felt underneath the carbs for the bolt heads and suddenly remembered that the bolt heads are welded on to a metal ring and don’t turn. See the attached photo. I did not need to use Jose’s suggestion of a long extension on my ratchet after all. The nut on the gearbox side though had so little room around it that I could only turn the nut an 1/8th of a turn at a time. 30 mins later and the nut was off. I jacked the car up at the front and secured it on axle stands before crawling under to look at the bottom nut. Same problem limited space so another 30 mins later and the startermotor was free. With my right hand down the front of the carbs and my left hand down the back I managed to get the startermotor out of the gearbox and then slid it forward hoping to do as Jose did and take it out of the top over the distributor. Nothing doing I am afraid. The bottom of the starter fouls on the oil pressure switch situated on the top of the oil filter housing and the top fouls on the throttle linkage. No way was this going out the top. My car is a 1968 3.4s auto so might be different to Jose’s car. Anyway I lowered the startermotor down towards the bottom of the car with my left hand supporting the lower end and my right hand guiding the top. Bloody heavy old thing and when I had lowered it down on so it was between the chassis leg and engine block I tried to remove my left hand and found I was trapped. There was no pressure on my hand but the gap between the startermotor and the inner wing was large enough for my wrist but too small for my hand to pass through. Tried lifting the starter up with my left hand but it was just too heavy and I was stretching too far with my right hand to get a good grip. Stuck! After 30 mins of lying across the wing of the car with my left hand stuck, crying, I contemplated phoning the fire brigade as I had my mobile phone in my right trouser pocket or phoning my mate to come and help me but he was at least an hour away. What a dilemma! I couldn’t face the fire brigade so tried one last time to lift the startermotor and managed to move it a fraction which allowed my left hand to just scrape free. Time for a cup of coffee.
Anyway back under the car and the startermotor would not come out of the gap between the chassis leg and the engine due to the screw on oil filter canister being in the way. Unscrewed this and startermotor slid out. Only took 4 hours to remove it."

The manual talks about removing the oil pipes and filler pipe to the gearbox (BW35) but I found these did not have to be removed.

When it came to putting the startermotor back in I could not for the life of me line the starter up in the hole. This was from the underside of the car pushing the heavy motor up above my head with the horrid feeling that if I slipped this was going to fall back through the gap onto my head. The nose was only partially going into the bell housing and I could not push it in any further as it was jamming on something. After an hour of struggling I realized that the back of the starter was fouling on the oil pressure sender which was stopping me from getting it horizontal enough to slide into the hole in the bell housing. Strange that it came out this was with the oil filter housing in situ. Anyway I had to remove the oil pressure sender to get the starter horizontal and allow it to slip back into its hole.

Below is a photo of the original starter motor next to the new high torque starter as a size comparison. Once it is in place you cannot see it due to the carbs over hanging it so it does not effect the visual originality of the engine bay.

Hope this helps.

 

All the above makes me want to throw in the towel before I even start. In another post I stated my engine is locked up. Wasn't suppose to be. When I switch on the ignition and hit the starter button the only sounds are from the solenoid clicking. The first few times I tried pushing the button on the side of the solenoid and it still clicked. After that silence, no sounds at all. Back to the starter button on dash and it clicks. I've replaced both cables and have a good battery. I've also ran a heavy wire from the negative side of the battery and touched it to the terminal on the starter and got nothing. Wondering if by chance the starter is locked into the ring gear? I've tried putting the car in gear and rocking it to no avail. Any thought?
Thanks

 

Did the previous owners give any clue about why the car was laid up? My 3.8 MK2 came with no history but when I got it running it wouldn't go backwards, when I rebuilt the gearbox I found the reverse brake band was broken and is likely why the car came off the road.

Was the car stored in the dry? If outside did it have the bonnet and air cleaners on it?

My 2.4 MK2 was siezed solid because it had been left outside with the air cleaner and possibly the bonnet off, removing the head showed that the amouint of water ingress had been considerable and removing the pistons was difficult and resulted in smashing three of them.

If you can't turn the engine by puttting it in gear and rocking it (even if only a small bit) then my first thought wouldn't be to remove the starter. I would put some diesel down the bores and get a socket and long bar on the bottom pulley bolt (possibly remove the radiator to get better access and see if you can gently ease it around maybe working it backwards and forwards. If that doesn't move it at all then its probably going to need a strip down and rebuild.

Have you removed the plugs and had a look down the plug holes witha torche to see if there is any clue as to what might be going on?

 

Been in dry storage for 10 + years. No idea of why it was parked. I've been soaking it for over a week. Have taken the carbs off and will do the starter next. Won't hurt anything.

 

You get at the crank bolt from down below, not from the top.
It's very unlikely that the Bendix has lodged itself in the flywheel causing the starter to be permanently engaged.

Have you removed the camshaft covers ?

 

No. The Mark 2 is new to me. Up to this point I've been more of an MGA type mechanic. Obviously there's a world of difference. I'm sure I can learn but will need some advice along the way.

 

Where abouts are you based as there might be one of us that lives around the corner and would be willing to help out.

 

An engine is an engine, don't let things intimidate you.

 

That's what I keep telling myself.

 

You will learn to love the tough old XK engine once you get used to it. It's just like an Alfa with 2 extra cylinders although Alfa also made a 6 cylinder. Very similar format. The XK just has a long stroke with higher piston speeds. There is lots of combined knowledge here always willing to help.

 

With all this discussion I am referring back to the original problem of carby fuel smell when hot,
Fuel will expand when heated. In fact this is a well known factor in aviation. The specific gravity for aviation gasoline varies between .68 in the tropics to .72 in colder climates at typical temperatures as an example..
Stopping a hot XK engine means that the carby can become "heat soaked" and fuel already in the float bowl will expand.

This could be compounded by a poor or almost non existent venting of a float bowl due to a blocked "overflow" or vent pipe.
This could also lead to flooding as the float needle and seat can no longer function as intended.
This could also lead to the "reluctance to start".

I have just been through this problem myself with my MK2 as the "bug stopper" mesh I installed over the vent pipe outlet of one of the carbies fell off and our friendly mud dobbing critters made a home in it.
Symptoms were as per Blue 340s original post.