Several month ago we purchased a complete Bell SS dual exhaust system for our 1960 240L MK2 that has a 3.8L installed with 4sp/OD. Original exhaust system was a rusty single system which we are sure was a carry over from the 2.4 motor.

So yes, things may not be an easy bolt in with the transplant. The issue is the down pipes, one is too short and one seems to be too long. The twin muffler unit bolt to the correct hangers and is in the correct position, the only position it can be in. The twin exhaust pipes fit well and are also seem to be in the correct position.

But as the photos show, something is not right. Bells product information says I do have the correct 2 down pipes. The system was purchased from Barratt USA. I will of course contact them on Monday.

Did anyone who fitted similar Bell systems encounter any issues?

A fix would be to purchase an extender slip sleeve for the pipe that is too short, if indeed I have the right parts and Barratt cannot resolve.

Thanks
jjsandsms

 

assuming you ordered it for a 3.8 it should fit.
I installed a complete BELL system in my 3.8 'S' and the fit was not difficult, except of course, the two downpipes, that took time mating them and aligning them with the manifolds and with the bolted bracket at the engine / transmission point.

 

Hello jjsandsms,
I do not have first hand experience installing the Bell system but I do have a complete system hanging the the rafters in my garage, waiting for me to get to that point in my restoration of a 1966 3.8L Mk2. The first thing that strikes me about the down pipes is the angle. It is a little hard to tell from the picture but it appears that the flange that connects to the exhaust manifold is at a right angle to the pipes. Mk2's with the 3.8L used the "swept back" exhaust manifolds, which are different from others, like an E-Type. I do not know what style of manifold the 2.4L used but is it possible it used the "straight down" exhaust manifolds and they were swapped onto your 3.8L engine?
I took a look at my Bell down pipes and the angle between the pipe under the car and the pipe up to the manifolds is more like 120 degrees.
The 2.4L block is shorter so I would think that the down part of the down pipe would also be a little shorter but that does not explain the length issues under the car.
Sorry I cannot offer more.

 

The 3.8l that is installed has the exhaust manifold outlets pointing straight down and are not the swept back type. I have no way of knowing if the exhaust manifold is original to the replacement engine of from the 2.4L. I also do not know where the 3.8L engine came from. Its serial number is LA7877-9. Here is a thread of me asking where it came from.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/m...-268623/page2/

Anyhow the pipes would fit perfectly if they were of the correct length.

Thanks

jjsandsms

To: cdg66mk2

PS, I am originally from Pittsburgh (born and raised in Plum Boro) and now in Sarasota for many years. I was recently at this years 2023 Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix on that Saturday. I did see I believe at least 3 MK2's and spoke with a couple of the owners. Might you have been one?

I was the one asking about the original interior pleat design.

 

I am with Jose on this one in that you might have the wrong manifolds on the engine for the exhaust system Bell have supplied you. Here is a picture of the swept back manifolds on my 3.4 S Type during my rebuild. Obviously not on the car but then it would be impossible to take a photo of them in the engine bay.
I made the mistake once at the Jaguar day in Stoneleigh during my rebuild where I came across a perfect set of manifolds for the Jaguar XK engine which I bought only to find they were the straight manifolds for an E Type when I got home. I did sell them for more than I paid for them on EBay so not a bad thing in the end.


Swept back manifolds

Straight Manifolds

 

I have the straight manifolds. Replacement engine number is LA7877-9. I posted a query as to the engine origin previously and general consensus is it is possibly from an early S-type or early 3.8 MK2.

So the question is now, did all 3.8 liter engines in MK2's or S-type have the swept manifolds? Were there any fitments where it might have been a straight manifold?

Is there any performance difference between the two?

So We will see what Barratt says tomorrow. As in an earlier reply, I think I have a fix as is....just use a 1-3/4" short extension on the short down pipe. Might be cheaper than paying shipping back to Barratt and waiting for the correct pipes even if they are available.

Nothing is ever easy when dealing with a modified car that one has no info on its past!!

Thanks
jjsandsms

 

All S type engines begin with 7B regardless of whether it is a 3.4 or 3.8 so not from an S Type.

Looking at this website LA prefix comes from a 3.8 Mk2.

https://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers...ne_numbers.htm

Does not say what year but judging by the fact the letters run from LA to LE on the 3.8 Mk2 I would say it was an early engine. Again not sure what manifolds should be on an early Mk2.

 

Wrong manifolds or wrong exhaust ordered. Bell systems fit perfectly. That's what I have. They also don't produce that tinny rasp of older SS exhausts. Bell exhausts are great and sound exactly like mild steel trash.

S Type:

 

Personally I would get the correct exhausts manifolds so that it fits, if you modify the exhaust the angle of the down pipes will be wrong which will put the flexi section under stress. You might be able to sell your 2.4 ones to someone with a 2.4 or E-Type as I think they are the same?

As far i'm aware all 3.8 MK2 cars had the swept back manifold, my 1959 3.8 certainly does.

 

As I recall, the swept-back exhaust manifolds were installed by Jaguar when they began to fit power steering. The original PS pumps were put on the back of the dynamo and the front exhaust manifold got in the way.

 

The swept back manifolds also flow better than the E Type straight down variety.

 

My car being originally a 2.4 does not have power steering. So if the engine came from an early 3.8 MK2 did early MK2's have power steering? If not maybe the straight down manifold is proper for the 3.8 now installed.

Thanks

jjsandsms

 

For information, here is the exact kit i purchased.

https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#...OMPONENTS(3265)

It clearly states it is for early 3.4/3.8 with straight manifold. Also I remember taking with the sales person about this and he said this is the correct system for what I have, I also now remember giving the sales person the engine serial number which he did say was an early 3.8.

So does this mean indeed early 3.4 and 3.8's had the straight manifold and perhaps these early cars still were not fitted yet with power steering. When was PS added as an option?

Anyhow something is not right????

THANKS for all the replies and interest in my problem.

Yes the Bell system is very very nice, well made.

jjsandsms

 

Early Mk2's did not have power steering offered. The 2.4 Block deck height (and thus the head) is considerably lower than a 3.4 or 3.8 which are identical. This could be where your problem lies going from 2.4 to 3.8. Wrong manifolds.

Power steering was only offered as an option from September 1960 on the Mk2.

 

I didn't know that the early Mark 2 had a straight down manifolds, I thought all the small saloons were swept back to clear the front subframe. E Types have the straight down manifolds, but they have a torsion bar suspension, so no front subframe to clear.

With regard to engine number, that isn't of much help. I think that pretty much any exhaust manifold used on an XK engine will fit any other XK cylinder head. The intake manifold bolt pattern and port spacing changed over the years, but as far as I know the exhaust never changed. I'm sure there must be an exception, but I can't think of one.

Looking at the first photo, usually the flex sections were side by side, and you have them positioned with one quite a bit further back. Can you make things work by swapping the pipes at the manifolds?

 

Interesting that if you compare the photos from post #1 and Glyns at post #8 you can clearly see the difference in the angle of the pipes going to the manifolds. Post #1 which is the we will say faulty ones are definitely more upright/vertical where they meet the manifold so would indicate they go on the straight manifold. Whereas in Post #8 you can see the same pipes at an angle designed to meet the swept back manifold.
Jagboi has suggested changing which down pipe meets which manifold pipe but I think looking at Post #1 the front pipe is shaped to bend around the back pipe so this might not work.
It is difficult to make an assessment without being there and playing around with the pipes but they don't look right and putting extra bits in to make them fit means the problem lies with the manufacturer not perhaps with the fitter.

 

I certainly thought maybe swapping the down pipes might help, but they can only go one way, as Cass3958 points out. Looking at my original photo of the two pipes side by side, there is a definite bend around the front pipe to allow them to be side by side once horizontal..

Interesting the comment that the flex sections are usually side by side. If one looks at the photo on Barratts web site for the kit I got, they don't look like they will be side by side when installed.





Thanks

jjsandsms

 

If I have it right, you have the early vertical outlet manifolds and Barratts have sent you vertical downpipes to match the manifolds. There's only one way the mufflers can go on the car. And only one way the front pipes can fit together. Therefore, if one of the pipes doesn't reach the muffler, there must be a manufacturing error or the pipe is for a different car (XK or E type?). I would take some photos of the two front sections laid out next to a tape measure, send them to Barratts and tell them you want the correct section sent asap and that they can arrange for the incorrect piece to be collected if they want it back.

Didn't we have a discussion about wrong front sections for an exhaust system a month or so ago? I think in that case the pipes didn't match the manifolds.

 

You are spot on. I did first thing this morning speak with Barratt and sent them same photos as in this thread and detail excerpts from this thread.

Just look at the dual muffler inlets, the one for the front which lines up with my front down pipe (except too short) part #JR59, the inlet is actually shorter than the one for the rear pipe (pipe number JR60). One would think its the other way around, which is leading me to think that indeed I have got the wrong pipes for the application. The muffler is the same part number for all their applications, early and late, as described on their web site.

As I have said, the pipes line up perfectly, fit up to the manifolds, clear the steering rod, etc, etc. They just are not the correct length.

Oh well, I'm waiting for their response. Stay tuned..............

Thanks
jjsandsms.

 

I'm so sorry to hear you're having the same issue I had with this same kit from SNG !!! One pipe too short, the other too long. I started a thread about my issue last Spring. I hope you have better luck than me with Barratt helping you out. I ended up at a custom muffler shop to cut and weld the pipes and attach to the mufflers so all would fit. However, your extension pieces may work and you avoid the cost and the effort to find a muffler guy competent to work on these SS pipes. Best of Luck ! Again, sorry to hear of your problems !
Schmitty