Hello All,
First post, so please be gentle!
After 40yrs of lusting after Mk2's last yr I bought a Triumph Spitfire (good body but mechanically tired) to practise on. After full mechanical restoration (suspension all round, engine, gearbox, brakes, etc) sold it in December to buy a 4.2ltr Mk2 (off a well known auction site, site unseen ... yeah, lesson learnt). Knew it needed a respray & mechanically a little tired, but told body all good & no welding needed - Well, all is NOT good.
Jag restoration specialists took a screwdriver to the underseal with me present & revealed it needs new crows feet, new front chassis cross member, both sills rotted & full of filler (rust poured out when piece of filler removed) both chassis rails shot, all jacking points, RH rear hangers, etc, etc, etc. ... £15k (+ VAT) to basically replace the underside. I can't justify £15k + VAT if it still then needs a re-spray (~ £8k) bringing total spend to £40k before I even TOUCH the mechanicals when for £40k you can buy a fully restored Mk2.

So, as I see it:

Option 1: Re-list it more honestly & take a financial hit (it really needs to be bought by someone who can do the welding themselves - that's not me),

Option 2: Try to negotiate on quote, but it's a lot of welding, so always going to be £££

Option 3: Get a reconditioned shell (~£9K) & swap bits over (again, a LOT of work, but at least no welding!)

Any other options / ideas?
Suspect #1 will win out, but thought I'd throw it out there just in-case I'm missing the obvious. I love the car, & with a 4.2 it's HUGE fun to drive, but just can't do the welding it needs.
Many Thanks, & stay safe.
S.

 

Rule No. 1 of the antique car buying book is:

Never buy any car sight unseen or you will pay the price.

If the car was represented as rust-free, you might have recourse against the auction house. Talk to an attorney if you feel you were dupped.

there is going to be a lot more rust and rot once it is opened up. So be prepared for shocking surprises. It never fails.

unless you have the money to remanufacture the car, stop and look at your options.

 

There never was a 4.2 litre Mark 2, so it has had another engine fitted, probably from an XJ6. It would seem you have now learnt a very hard lesson. From all accounts the shell is scrap, so it might be best to try getting another shell that is known to be good, You might also try to get the welding done at a less expensive shop; prices can vary. However, your case just shows the danger of buying sight-unseen. As was said by Warren Buffet - "there isn't a cure for paying too much for an asset".

 

Many Thanks for the responses.
Should have said it's a Series 1 XJ6 engine (which goes great) - but a bit like it's owner the car's exterior shell is showing its age in all the usual places.
😔

 

yes, fitting a 4.2 engine is done in many MK-2 and the S type. I am considering doing the swap in my '65 S type, already have a Series 3 4.2 engine getting it prepped to accept the 3.8 carbs/intake.

But the issues of body rot are going to eat a lot of money, so that is where you need to stop and think.

 

No matter which way you cut it, you're going to take a hit on the capital you've expended. The car will have some value to somebody, but that value is unlikely to be the same as the purchase price. So it then becomes a matter of getting the best value out of this disastrous situation. My opinion is that you should exit as best you can and put this down as a learning opportunity, the lesson being to always do your homework very thoroughly and never buy something that is just a picture on a internet site.

 

Frasier,
Think you're spot on. It's been an expensive lesson, but it is still fantastic fun to drive so I have had some fun as well. Am I also the only on who leaves the bonnet up in the garage just to look at the engine whenever I'm in there???
Absolute work of art. 🙂

 

I think that depends upon how well the engine bay is detailed.
Personally I don't leave the bonnet up myself, I've had my car for so long, I know what's in there.
I see it when I check the oil or inspect things when needed and, that's enough.

 

Condition is "Used" rather than detailed, but can't imagine this view EVER getting old. 😉

 

What a shame as it really does look good from the top but we all know pictures can lie as can the seller. Hard to go back to the seller and say it is rotten as it appears your mechanic has had to have a good fiddle underneath to find the rot hidden behind filler and underseal. The previous owner might not have had the insight to delve too deep into the underside of the car knowing he was going to sell it. On the other hand he might have been the one to fill the sills and under seal the car knowing what lies beneath. You don't say how long he was the owner for or how much you paid for the car.
The last MOT on the vehicle's history page shows 2017 pass no advisories, 2016 pass no advisories. Back in 2013 pass but advisory that the underside of the car was covered in underseal Personally I would sell making sure the new owner knows what he is buying. Always good to be honest and up front. Take a loss and accept that if it was a new car you would have been hit with depreciation anyway. Get the cash in your pocket and start looking again. If you put your location in your details I am sure there will be a Mk2 owner who has rebuilt theirs close to you willing to drive out with you to inspect your next car. If you are in the west country area I would willingly assist.

 

Much appreciated Cass. Previous owner had it for 6 yrs, but who knows who did what before I got hold of it? I'll be lighter in the pocket, but hopefully wiser for the next purchase.
I'm on the Somerset / Devon border, & will certainly illicit specialist knowledge before the next purchase!!!

 

I am down in Torquay so if you need any help drop me a PM.

 

Do you have any photos of the actual rot in the car, in particular the sills, chassis legs etc?

Why have you convinced yourself that you can't do the welding? If you can do a full mechanical rebuild on a Triumph Spitfire then you clearly have skills and welding isn't that hard it just takes time and a little bit of practice.

If the panels arn't that bad you can make repair sections rather than replace although things like the crows feet are cheap enough that its not worth repairing.

I would be wary of a 9K rebuilt shell, it might not be much better than the one you have under the surface.

Overall looks a nice car and before you confine yourself to loosing a fortune have a look at how bad it actually is and what can be done, it doesn't need to be perfect and unless you spend huge amounts of money you won't get one that is.

There are lots of people on this forum and others who have replaced sections of the sills etc and a 2m x 1m sheet of steel costs around £30, i've had fours sheets so far on my car (as its really really bad) and made lots of panels myself which has saved a fortune, all you need is a tape measure a marker pen and something to cut the steel, I use air shears but tin snips or a jig saw would work as well. If you don't have a metal folder two pieces of angle iron and a vice work just as well.

Checkout my thread on here for a MK2 2.4 and also Voucherboys thread for his Daimler which both show how you can make rather than buy and repair rather than replace.

 

Thanks Homer for the pep talk. I really am in two minds. The rust is extensive (see photos for examples). There's also filler all the way down both inner sills & jacking points need replacing.
My welding knowledge is zero, so thought of doing that lot is daunting. Would need to fabricate a rotisserie first, weld in cross-members to keep the frame straight, then crack on. Definately food for thought, but concerned it may lead to indigestion. 😉

 

Not trying to put you off as I think you should have a go but what you can see is just what you can see. The problem with a Jaguar is the rust tends to start on the inside and work out rather than surface rust that creeps in. (Good external paint from the factory buts lots of bare metal inside the sills and chassis members.) Once you start pulling the rusty bits out you then have to find good metal on the car to be able to weld to which might mean taking a lot of rust out before you can start putting good metal back in.
If you do not think you are capable of doing the welding yourself then best not to touch anything. Leave it as it is and sell it warts and all to someone who has the money or the skills to do the work.

 

You can do that without a rottiserie although it does make it easier it also requires you to strip out the car which makes mroe work and more things to do and makes getting it on the road further away.

I restored an S-Type (similar up to the rear suspension mountings) and changed the inner and outer sill and jacking points just having the car on axle stands.

Personally I wouldn't brace anything unless the car seems really bad other than the B/C post as these flop around when the sills are removed, if you look at my MK2 restoration they don't come much more rotten and I didn't brace anything, just carefully measured it.

If you remove the rear spring hangers then I would make a jig (not a brace) that bolts onto the mountings so you get them back in the right place, again have a look at what I did on mine and what Voucherboy did on his.

Its easy for me to say as i've been welding cars up for over 20 years but that doesn't look too bad and as long as you are prepared to have a good and take your time its not past saving, beware that if you sell it and buy another one it may be just the same in a few years (or even now with a load of filler skillfully place in it).

 

Hey Simon, hmm, I've been watching this thread and typed a response a couple of times. It's clear that you have considered doing this restoration, so it's obviously an option for you and not something you've ruled out as being impossible. I can't tell you what's right for you, but I can tell you about what I've done. It was a little more clear cut for me, I simply didn't have the budget for a 'sound' car, so it was a restoration or nothing. If you are able to take the financial hit and buy a better model, that may be for you. But even more expensive cars may not be all they appear to be, as you've already found out.

I have quite a bit of DIY experience working on cars, but no welding and certainly nothing on the scale of this before. I knew there would be lots to do and I knew there would be more than I anticipated. I knew I would need to learn how to weld quickly, it's not difficult and does require practice but now I feel confident to tackle anything on the car. If you have practical skills, I'm sure it won't be a problem for you. I have also been able to fabricate many of the panels too, but some you simply have to buy, unless you have access to some expensive workshop tools. However, after doing what I've done over the last 8 months, I know there is no way on earth I could have done this without a rotisserie. I'm 54 and I wouldn't have been able to spend this much time working under the car. As Homer says, a rotisserie will require a partial strip-down, and for me the subframe, engine and axle had to come off anyway, but if it's built sturdy enough you shouldn't have to remove doors or windows, I haven't yet.

Looking at your pictures, the car doesn't look 'too' bad, certainly far better than mine, but as Cass3958 says, there will be more, so don't think that 'what you see is what you get'. BUT, the upside is, when it's done properly, it will be good and solid for a long time, almost certainly longer than whatever else you would end up buying. It will also give you a sound understanding of your car. As I say, I can't advise you, only you know what you should do, if you want to 'buy and drive, then maybe it's not for you. But if you are even considering this, then that tells me that you are probably the right person for the job.

Before you make any decision though, I would take some time to read through every restoration blog you can and get a feel what what's being done and how that work compares to what's required on your car. (don't be intimidated despite some of the pictures, they do look frightening). There are a few restorations on this forum, but also some on other sites. I won't post them here, but PM me if you want some external links.

Biggest thing, take your time and don't make a rushed decision.

 

No you arent Simon. Mine lives with its bonnet up. The engines are indeed true works of art.

 

This might sound stupid Simon but are there any Technical colleges near you that do night courses where you could learn to weld? Once you have an expert showing you how to do things it might not seem as daunting.
Cheers

 

I thought this was quite impressive.

Butt welding in panels would take the most thought, and I didn't say skill, I think it's all about taking ones time and thinking about what happens when you deviate from what the guy says in the video.
I would think a wire feed welder (MIG welder) would be essential, trying to weld using a gas flame would be nearly impossible on a body, the metal's too thin and too much heat is produced in given area before the weld would happen _ this it turn would cause a lot of warpage.