I have been asked by a friend about the orientation of the front engine support brackets. He has a 3.4s 1966 with engine stabilisers that he is rebuilding but it came in parts having already been stripped before he bought it.

The front engine brackets that bolt to the chassis leg and hold the rubber engine mount are sided and the part numbers are C11528 for the left side and C11529 for the right side. Problem is they are slightly offset but not marked with either the part number or an R or L to signify which side they should go. Terry is rebuilding his S Type and would like to know which bracket goes on which side.

Apparently there are two holes in the front face of the brackets. The lower hole is central but the upper hole is offset. The question is, should this top hole be closer to the front or the back of the car?

I have photos of the bracket in the engine bay when I first stripped my 3.4s down but they are not specifically of the bracket so not very clear. It looks like the top hole is to the front of the car but when I checked my car earlier the brackets on my car now have the top hole to the rear. They were removed during my strip down for painting and I am not sure if mine have been put back on correctly. Glyn has kindly sent me photos of other cars and engines but there seems to be some confusion here. All of Glyn's cars (Two donors and his immaculate 3.8s) have the holes to the rear as mine are now, but the service manual shows the holes to be towards the front. Glyn has also sent me a photo of an engine out of a car with the support brackets still attached and these are holes to the front. We are a little confused.

The offset is subtle but there is obviously a reason for it otherwise there would not be two part numbers and the brackets would be the same. Does anyone have an unmolested S Type or Mk2 where the front engine mount brackets have not been removed and are still as Browns Lane factory fitted that can tell us which way the top hole should be orientated, to the front or back of the car please.

 

are you asking about the engine MOUNTS on each side of the engine or the engine STABILIZERS at the front of the engine?

I am working in my car today and I can look at the driver's side MOUNT which is visible from above near the Generator. To look at the STABILIZERS I need to get under the front of the car.

 

Offset top hole to back or to front? These are how Cass and I have present brackets fitted. Arrow to rear. Excuse buffing compound all over the place.

 

Jose it is the front engine mount brackets that are bolted to the chassis leg not the stabilisers which are bolted to the cross member. They are numbers 74 and 75 in the following diagram.
You can see from the photo below that the top hole in the front face is slightly off to one side. You can see in the diagram that that top hole is to the front but we need to check if this is the correct orientation on an original car. Glyn has three CKD S Types (two donors and one on the road) and all his are hole to the rear but this might have been a CKD mistake?

 

Cass I tried but it is difficult to get a picture in such a dark area in a dark storage unit.

All I could notice is that the mounts are raised or angled at the firewall side and flat at the front side, per the pictures attached.

 

Those/that bracket/s appear/s to be damaged as were mine, Bent & cracked. I had to replace both sides. A known weak spot according to Martin Robey that supplied me.



















Bent






New brackets.

 

do you mean the bracket in my pictures?

if yes, the raised side is not normal?

geez, another thing to repair...i do have new rubber mounts but I wasn't aware of that / those brackets. I did not look at the carburators' side bracket. The rubbers at the stabilizers I replaced in 2006. .

 

Jose your photos of the brackets are taken from above looking down on to the top of the rubber mount. The rubber mount is bolted to the bracket we are interested in by two bolts. The bracket is bolted to the chassis leg by four bolts. The off set hole can be seen from under the car looking side on to the chassis leg. From above the only way you can tell the orientation of th ehole (to the front or to the back) is by feeling where it is with your fingers.
Do you know if your brackets have ever been removed from your car? If they have they might not be able to help us anyway as there is no way of telling which bracket is the left side or right side by looking.

 

as far as I know the engine block has never been removed, but the cylinder head was, as it was obviously cleaned of its blue paint but there are still specks of blue paint in areas.

also after I bought it, I took it to J.D. the mechanic in Nashville, for a check and oil change after the 2,900 mile drive from California. He told me the engine was "untouched" and to leave it alone.

If the engine mount brackets are damaged, I can see why and how. I don't know how much trouble it wil be to replace them.

this morning I noticed the brakes are gone, pedal to the floor, fortunately the emergency brake worked great.

 

The raised side is not normal. I had 6 damaged brackets. No one I know is making them at present. Robeys found NOS for me a few years back. Straighten, weld & gusset for strength might be the only option. I suspect they will last a while however even fatigued. My guy who is a genius at metal fabrication was all ready to manufacture a set for my car & make 'em strong.

 

so the engine mounts are a 3-part assembly?

the rubber mount,
the bolted bracket,
the welded chassis bracket.

I have a machine shop across the street, they do heavy steel works, maybe I can take the brackets to them to get them repaired and reinforced.

the only issue I foresee is removing them without hoisting the engine. Going to study the service manual to see how it is done.

 

If you want to see it that way

1) Bracket bolted to cylinder block
2) Engine mounting rubber
3) Bolted bracket that engine mount sits on
4) Chassis mounting point welded to chassis beam & channel that above bracket bolts to with 4 bolts

 

Glyn, I think this is something I could tackle myself if I could raise the engine enough without a hoist. I do have a 3-ton hydraulic jack but no hoist.

this could also answer Cass' question since I think the mounts have never been touched, therefore the damage.

yes I understand the two stabilizers and the rear cylinder head mount need to be undone, but I don't know if the engine can be raised enough without a hoist or from where.

I can raise the front of the car enough to work under it, since I have two tire changing jacks, one for each side. I also have heavy duty safety jackstands.

Any tips for doing this without a hoist or is it possible at all ?

 

Jose I changed my rubber engine mounts last year without a hoist.
Undo the rubber mounting bolts to the engine block bracket either side.
Raise the car up and support the chassis legs on to the axle stands.
Place the jack under the sump area of the engine with a block of wood between the jack and the sump.
Jack the engine up until it rises above the height of the rubber mount bolts. This is only an inch and a half.
My car does not have the front stabilisers so on yours you might have to release the bolts through the stabiliser bushes so the engine can be raised.
Caution should be taken that you do not lift the engine too high that the chassis starts lifting up off the axle stands.
The engine needs only to raise an inch and a half really to be able to release the rubber mount and possibly less if you undo the four bolts holding the front engine support bracket from the chassis leg as the mount will then drop down out of the car rather than having to lift the engine off the mount.
Access is the biggest problem due to where the bolts and mounts are situated.

 

sounds doable Cass, though how do I raise the engine without first undoing the rubber mounts?
Sounds like a catch 22.

yes I know how to release the stabilizers and the rear engine mount.

 

Undo the mounting centre bolt first before jacking up. Bit of a fiddle.

 

As Glyn says you undo the rubber mount bolt first. The way the engine mounts sit which can be seen in the diagram there is the mount we are talking about ( numbers 74 and 75) which bolt to the chassis leg. On top of this is bolted a rubber mount (number 70 and 73). The mount that attached to the engine block ( numbered 71 and 72) sits and rests on this rubber mount. By undoing the bolt Glyn has pointed out the engine mount bracket still sits on the rubber mount and will support the engine until you jack the engine up off it. You can jack the car up on the chassis rails as high as you want as this will not disturb the engine sitting on this mount. In this free position ie the bolt Glyn has pointed out removed and with the engine supported but not even raised you could undo the four bolts holding the bracket attached to the chassis leg and it should just fall away leaving the engine supported by the jack. Access would be your only problem to the four bolts holding the bracket to the chassis leg.

 

it looks like 2 of the bolts and nuts need to be attacked from the top, and any other bolts and nuts attacked from the bottom, to remove the damaged brackets.

if I had the part numbers, I could contact J.D. to help find new brackets, short of that, he might tell me to send the brackets to him for repair.

obviously this is not an easy job, and dangerous if you ask me.

 

Jose ~ If I was you I would leave them alone until they really give you trouble. I was restoring a car & not going to put back bent & cracked brackets. The engine can't go very far if one fails. By the time Cass' car was built they had deleted the front stabalisers & he had a rubber mount failure & the fan went through his radiator under braking or when putting the car in Drive IIRC.

 

yes Glyn, this job is not something I will be doing anytime soon. Car is stored and deteriorating mechanically, as I just lost all braking. I am doing one job at a time. But it is good to have this information in advance, thanks for the part numbers.