Hi All

Just joined this forum and got a great welcome from all you nice folks.
Getting started on my recently purchased project.....(1969 Daimler V8 250 RHD Automatic)....but can I ask a couple of general questions.
I need to get the rust dealt with, it seems to be not too bad underneath so I am considering whether it is worthwhile getting the car soda blasted back to bare metal.
The advantage is a clean sheet to start working with versus hours or maybe weeks stripping back rusty metal and filler, downside is the potential to open up a pandoras box of additional issues which may have never come to light to start with.
So, for those of you who have stripped back to bare metal before, would you do it again?
Next up is another general question........A heritage certificate from the Trust.......does it include the paint codes in the £50 plus VAT? or is that an additional £16.67 plus VAT to get this information.
Thanks in advance for all your help.

Rob

 

It depends what you are trying to achieve. If you want to do a proper ground up restoration the only way is to strip the car completely & have the entire shell, doors, bonnet & bootlid media blasted inside & out and start again. I even replaced all the wiring harnesses. A friend lost a recently restored Mk2 to a fire caused by deteriorated wiring. Mine was & is a rust free SA car. I would do it again.

As a UK car I would consider this a must as this can be a safety issue. You don't know what that Pandora's box might be hiding. Sills, A & B posts rear suspension spring mounts & box members etc. some rusted from the inside out.

Can't help with what the Trust will send you.

Be brave & expect a severely damaged wallet. It will cost you more than the car is worth. It will take longer than planned. The positive is if you look after it, it won't depreciate. It will be a fun project & enjoyable to drive once complete.

The other option is just to build a pretty car but it might be a deathtrap in an unforeseen accident.

Good Luck!

 

Thanks Glyn

I managed to grab some time with the car today and I am tending to agree with your hypothesis.
There are as you say, 2 issues, aesthetics and safety so whilst talking with SWMBO who entered the garage it seems that her memory of my Westfield is ingrained
in her psyche, and I quote, "if you think I am going out in that again you can forget it, it feels so unsafe".
So, I need to get to a point where the car is as structurally sound as it can be and that means a "full up" restoration.
It is the only way, as you say, to get certainty.
I expect some serious wallet denting so we shall see how bad that gets.
Thanks again Glyn

Rob

 

In fairness on the cost front. A good friend who commutes between SA & Dallas where he now lives & has a mini Jay Leno collection of cars now. Some restored here & some in Poland (his restorers there do a great job of only Mercedes & Porsches)

Jaguar spares are more readily available now than 20 years ago and are extremely well priced when compared with doing a Mercedes restoration properly. Benz Classic Centre can provide most of what you want right back to original carpets by the original manufacturer. But oh man do you pay!

We all moan about Jag parts cost but they are actually quite reasonable comparatively speaking. The UK trim providers like John Skinner are great to deal with & a lot cheaper than Benz as well.

 

This was one of the reasons to go the Jaguar/Daimler route is that Skinners plus Manners, Robeys etc etc are all based no more than 45 minutes from here.
Prices for parts are sensible, market forces will be whatever.
It is getting increasingly difficult to find the project cars here in the UK that are sensibly priced...............C19 lockdown seems to have caused a spike in demand.
Not sure when or if they will go down again.

Rob

 

I concur with Glyn. Full strip down and soda blast is the way to go. I bought an S Type that was partially stripped and allegedly all the welding had been done. New sills, new front wings, rear arch repair panels and so on. When it came back from the blasters I found more holes which had been covered in filler and underseal in the inner rear arches, front wheel inner arches and so on. Well worth sending to the blasters for piece of mind.
On the topic of money do not set a budget because you will only go over it and try and cut corners. Do not set a time when you want it finished because you will go over it and cut corners trying to finish it. I treated mine like a 9 to 5 job as I was retired, Worked three days a week some times until 10 at night to finish a job I could not leave. Took me 16 months from start to finish so you have to accept that it will not be finished tomorrow and just crack on with it. Before buying new try and refurbish the original parts first. If it is unrepairable try buying second hand parts and refurbish them. In the UK it is not viable but many people buy a second car that is really bad and not worth fixing as a parts car. I know Glyn has two parts cars in South Africa and many of our cousins across the pond have parts cars but they also have the space to keep them.
Good luck with the restoration, keep us updated and ask as many questions as you want as there is no such thing as a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

 

That is indeed a big plus Rob. Jon Skinner (Jonathan) is an absolute star. His dad was John after which the business is named. David Manners is a real gent and found some very scarce parts for me. I had some minor issues with Robey's but resolved. Barratt's supplied the vast majority of my parts & Mr Barratt gave me a single person of contact for my project ~ one Thomas Rochelle who went way beyond the call of duty to look after me. He has subsequently had a very well deserved promotion. Barratts also get the most amazing courier rates from UK to SA. Helps a lot with endless multiple boxes of parts & large items like uprated radiators.

 

Soda blast is a great way to go. I'd avoid chemical dipping, had a friend with an Alfa that was dipped and the stuff stared oozing out years later from between overlapping spotwelds. he ended up having to strip and repaint.

I had my S Type sandblasted, and I'm still getting sand out of it. I'd make sure that the shell truly is bare before blasting, but it's amazing where the media can get to. I expect soda is easier get out than sand.

 

I had mine grit blasted and as said there were bits everywhere but I managed to clear most of them out over a day with an air gun.
When I went to the blasters they asked me if I was sure that they go ahead and then preceded to tell me a story of a friend of mine who was rebuilding a Messerschmitt Tiger four wheeler. They asked him the same question and he gave them the go ahead but when he returned they handed him the body back in three parts which had previously been held together with filler and rust. Tim finished the Messerschmitt fitting all new floor and body panels to perfection as he always does and had a really sound car. Without the grit blasting another restorer might have built a death machine just waiting to break in to three.

Shell waiting to go in to the blasters.

Shell after blasting with a red oxide paint protection to be transported back to the workshop.

 

My car was "sand" blasted before soda blasting was the "in thing". On return we put it on a spit and gave one of my restorer's labourers the job of vacuuming & blowing the grit out of every cavity. It just kept coming but he did a fine job. We then blew litres of Glasurit Porsche self healing primer into every cavity and gave the car a good coat inside & out. And there she sat in all her glory in matt light green. Much like Cass' orange job.

Sorry ~ pics were pre digital.

 

Yep ~ chemical dipping is like using paint stripper on woodwork. If you can't neutralise it completely & EVERYWHERE. It can cause trouble years down the line.

 

The Heritage Certificate for my 1963 Mk2 gives the paint and interior colours by name: opalescent dark green and suede green. I'm not sure if anything more detailed existed in those days.

Soda blasting is a very good idea. Whatever you do and no matter how good the car looks, take of the sills off and cut away the lower area of the front wing just in front of the sills. It's vital to check the A-post to sill joints and also the B-post. I'm going further and significantly increasing the strength and stiffness of all the door post to sill connections and adding an intermediate sill (as on the S type and 420). There's a good principle in structural engineering and it's to always make joints stronger and stiffer than the members they join. Unfortunately, the Pressed Steel Company weren't always too good at that and time and corrosion only make things worse.

Apart from this forum and other internet sites, it's worth tracking down an old Practical Classics mini-book on a Mk2 restoration. It's a bit dated (from the 1980s), but it's still very hepful.

 

Thank you all for your replies and the really useful information.
I think I will get a heritage certificate as it would be quite nice to have with the car and that will give me the paint codes and the interior colour.
I have made my mind up that I will strip it right down and get the shell soda blasted, which leads me to another idiotic question.
Having got an immovable shell how did you transport it to the company for blasting?
I am happy to hire a trailer and tow car, the issue is how to get it from the garage to the trailer........big strong burly chaps or some other way ????
Or do the blasting companies in your experience offer a collect and delivery service?
I have restored a car before but not to this depth so this is new ground for me. I really appreciate your advice and help.

 

Hi Cass
Thank you for your advice, I agree re the money.........I am doing this because it is a car I have always wanted and whilst budget is not limitless I want it to be right so I will not cut corners to save a few quid.
I am expecting 3 years or so to get it done, maybe longer, maybe shorter but that will depend on how much "stuff" I farm out to others.
I am thinking that the engine, gearbox and back axle would benefit from someone other than me reconditioning them
I am keen to keep and use as much as I can of the original , apart from the interior seats it seems to be a fairly complete car.

Is there a place on this forum for posting update threads and posts or do I just start one and add to it as I go along.
Thanks all

Rob

 

We just used manpower to place the shell on a trailer.

Just start a thread with a suitable heading & keep updating it. We have many of them. At every new post it will move to the front of the line.

Also suggest to put a link to that thread in your signature as others & I have.

 

Both my Engine and Gearbox were toast so had to be sent out to be rebuilt. With the engine I disassembled it sent it off for machining and then reassembled it myself but the dark art of the automatic gearbox was beyond me completely. One mistake I made with the engine was I handed it over to the machine shop with a set of new pistons, valves and bearings and it was placed on the floor of the workshop to have a rebore. The Machinist asked me when I wanted it for and I stupidly said, "No rush I am still doing all the body work." Nine months later I returned to the machinists workshop to see how things were getting on to find the engine still in the same place with all the new parts on top as I had left them. So moral of the story is when they ask when you want it done by say tomorrow then store it in your own workshop ready to fit. Parts can go missing and workshops can go bust so get it back as soon as you can.

 

I took my car to the blasters as a rolling chassis and they then lifted the car with a fork lift so I could remove the front and rear subframes. When I collected the chassis they loaded it with the fork lift on to the trailer and back at the workshop there were 8 of us that lifted the chassis up off the trailer so I could bolt it to a rolling jig.
Most if not all blasters will have some form of lifting gear to take body shells off trailers as it is there bread and butter.