MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

MK2 with BW65 require assistance

 
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:33 PM
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Default MK2 with BW65 require assistance

I am in need of assistance. My BW65 in my 3.4 MK2 is in position but fI have been unable to mate the gear selector to the transmission. It is LHD. Has anyone done this upgrade? If so kindly send detailed photos and information of the gear selector attachment to the BW65. Ideally I want the selector to orient P through L from left to right.

I was considering emulating the factory gear selector to BW 35 box. Unfortunately the metal "pedestal" steering column attachment is different. That put me back to the beginning. Several hospitalisations, surgeries and more has put me far behind. The best I can determine a lever is required transfering the cable movement at the rear of the trans to the front lever.

If anyone knows of a succesful swap kindly let me know.

Thanks

Bob
 
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:18 AM
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I wasn't aware that automatic Mark 2 cars ever came with a BW65 ! If you look on the SNG Barratt website you'll see there are three possible assemblies for the transmission control. As far as I know the first car with the BW65 was the XJ saloon.
 
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Old 06-24-2019, 06:04 AM
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The Borg Warner type 35 was fitted to the Mk2 from June 65. The differences in control mechanism are covered in detail in the S Type PARTS Manual.
 
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Old 06-24-2019, 06:20 PM
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Default BW35

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck View Post
The Borg Warner type 35 was fitted to the Mk2 from June 65. The differences in control mechanism are covered in detail in the S Type PARTS Manual.
I believe the 3.8S with the earlier BW transmissions as well as the BW35 would use the same gear selector system. My memory is bad. The Borg Warner 8 and I beleive 12 used in the 3.8S share the same gear selector parts along with the BW35 in the MK2.. The problem is the "pedestal" where the steering column is mounted is different than the pre BW35 MK2. I purchased all the parts and then found that out. The conversion would require a unique method of selector cable attachment. Also the parts book drawings that I have seen are for RHD cars and the design is different. I was able to get a MK2 BW35 selector detent plate. My assumption is it will also work with the BW65.

This is why I am seeking the advice from a person who actually did this conversion or knows someone who has. Initially I was told by "experts" that is was a drop in conversion. The gear selctor cable would hook up to the BW65 with no difficulty. Obviously an answer meant to have me fail. Although the mounting parts were a bolt in proposition. The gear selector is the difficult and frustrating part of the project.

If anyone has the appropriate 3.8S parts listing I would appreciate a copy forwarded to me. I have a 420 parts book which I beleive also has the same selector parts.

Thanks.

Bob
 
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Old 06-24-2019, 06:24 PM
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Download here & you can see the parts differences that might help. Go to section on BW35 control vs, DG control ~ round knob on end of change lever.

http://www.jagstyperegister.com/imag...pepartscat.pdf

Hopefully someone that has actually fitted a BW65 will chime in.
 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 06-24-2019 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:21 AM
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Default parts book 3.8

Glyn thank you for the parts book posting. Previously I made a cross comparison chart of the selector parts used on the LHD BW35 in the MK2 and other Borg Warner equipped Jaguars using the MK2 platform. Most of these components were used in each car. I was also able to get the correct kick down mechanism. It attaches onto the rear carburetor with the cable running to the transmision. It is shown in the 3.8S manual. Of importance is that cable besides controlling kick down supplies throttle position. In the BW65/66 the "firmness" of the shift is different at low throttle verses full throttle. One of the unique parts is the selector detent plate. It is not LHD or RHD dependent. I purchased one from a BW35 equipped RHD MK2 from a company in the UK.

The selector lever on the BW35 as well as the BW65/66 is at the front of the gearbox. In contrast the original DG250 slector lever is positioned at the rear of the gearbox. On the BW 35 MK2 installation the selector cable runs from the steering column through the top of the transmission tunnel down to the gearbox selector lever. This is true for both LHD and RHD. The LHD cars use a different lever under dash as the movement is reversed. As mentioned previously the parts manual and service manual drawings are for the RHD configuration. Once the parts numbers for the LHD car are determined most can be easily obtained as they are also used in other BW equipped MK2 platform cars.

I secured all theses components. I trial fit the parts and discovered that the sheet metal "pedestal" which the steering column is attached is different than the DG250 equipped MK2. I was left with two courses of action. Either purchase a pedestal cut from a correct donor car and replace the correspong part in my MK2 or find a way to get the original DG250 mechanism to function with the BW65/66.

Keep in mind replacing that "pedestal" is an extensive undertaking. At least for me. While it appears a minor difference in "pedestal" dimensions it is crucial. The difference in height allows the slightly longer lever attached to the gear selector shaft clearance to operate. As well as holes in the side of the "pedestal" to allow the cable to attach and run through the "pedestal".

I hope I was able to clearly define the issues involved. It took me a while to determine the difficulties as described. Unfortunately I spent several long periods in hospital as well as recuperation from heart surgery and complications. A year or more. My memory of this conversion are not clear due to the time passed and health problems I encountered. I did my best to dscribe the situation. Thank you.

Bob
 
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:44 AM
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Default steering column

Neglected to mention. The steering column used with BW8, 12, 35 transmissions is different than that used on the DG250 cars. The lever that actuates the selector cable is at the top end. As mentioned the cable travels through the top of the transmission tunnel. The DG250 gear selector designm has a long shaft running the entire length of the steering column exiting the firewall where it beds 90 degrees. That forms a lever which attaches to the selector cable. I also purchased several "BW" steering columns as part of my conversion.

I hope I have not confused all. It was a long learning process. Unfortunately the different "pedestal" was not discovered until the very end. As they say it was back to the drawing board.

I am wondering if anyone has actually placed a BW65/66 into a MK2. While the GM transmission conversion is sold, I considered the BW65/66 an ideal candidate as it is a derivative of the BW35. I never imagined the problems I would encounter.

Bob
 
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:56 AM
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Bob,

Just noticed your thread. I've been MIA for a while, concentrating on finishing a Mini Cooper S for my son. I will be glad to see the end of it as it's been a huge restoration (should I say 'rustoration") job!

I replaced the DG transmission on my Mk2 with a BW65/66 a few years ago. Being located in Oz, its a RHD 1964 model. When I bought the car, the vendor sold me the 65/66 tranny along with a S type column and selector lever (the one with the black knob) and the relevant quadrant indicator (with D1 & D2 positions). I fitted all these and rigged up a makeshift kick-down mechanism which I don't think works all that well. The tranny seems to shift OK, but selecting Park is dodgy & more adjustment is needed. A mate close by has done the same conversion, but he had it done by a auto transmission specialist, and he is happy with the results, so obviously the changeover can be done successfully.

Not sure if a RHD conversion is of any help to you, but happy to check anything that might be useful to your scenario.

Pete
 
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:11 AM
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I would be most interested in seeing the top of the column. Specifically how it attches under the dash, to what I call a "pedestal". To my knowledge in order to provide rotation clearance for the lever attached to the gearship selector shaft the column has to be mounted lower than designed. Unless as I noted previously the "pedestal" is of shorter dimension. My concern was not only the asthetic difference but the clearance allowed by the dash and the steeper angle the column takes creating a less than desirable angle at the universal joint.

Also of interest would be the routing of the cable in that same area. Being RHD it is a bit simpler. The LHD cable must pass through that "pedestal".

The S type column, I beleive, would have a small bracket that attaches to that "pedestal" and would have two studs (actually bolts on a sub plate) for attaching the column. With a shorter "pedestal" the extra clearance provided by that bracket would not change the final column height. Therefore keeping the universal joint at the same angle.

Anyway photographs could provide something I have not thought of. It would also be of interest to see details of the other conversion.

Thank you.

Bob
 
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Old 06-27-2019, 04:22 AM
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No problems, I'll get back to you asap.

Pete
 
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:11 AM
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Default BW kick down mechanism

This is the kick down mechanism. It mounts on the rear carburetor.


 
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:21 AM
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Default "BW" pedestal

I purchased this 3.8S pedestal from a breaker. I wanted it in one piece. As you can see he cut the part in several places rendering it useless. I tack welded it together to use as a test for the parts that will attach to it. You can see the cable side plate attached. That is where the cable end is secured. The cable rod attaches to a lever assembly further to the left bolted to the car. The height of this part at the short end when compared with the same part used on DG250 MK2 is .65" shorter.
 
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:25 AM
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Default Prts clamped in place

The parts clamped in place. As it is the original pedestal it would be in the wring place as well as not having the large holes and threaded bungs required. It will give you an idea of the design of the LHD "BW" design,
 
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Old 06-30-2019, 06:01 AM
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Photos did not come out too well. Confined space with all the dash in place. Not of much use to you. Sorry..

Pete
 
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:26 AM
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Default observation

Were you able to see if the "pedestal" was chnged or modified?

Does the gear selector cable run through the transmission tunnel?

Can you contact the other MK2 other who had the conversion done. He might have detailed information or photos.

You said the other conversion was peformed b ay transmission shop. Could you send me their contact information. They may be able to describe what they did.

Thank you.

Bob
 
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:29 PM
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Default console shift

The easy way to complete the conversion would be to use an XJ6 console gear selector. The shift cable would attach easily and the selector would work as in an XJ6. Unfortunately I wish to maintain the period look. Therefore it has to be the column gear selector lever. Of course the upholstery and trans tunnel would reuire some modifications. I have seen that done. Again, not period correct.

I cannot see how the original DG250 Mk2 selector could be used unless a custom made transfer lever was designed and attached at the rear of the BW65 transmission.

If a 3.8s steering column and sector parts are used with the original MK2 mounting "pedestal" it will not function unless there are holes and threaded bungs added. Even with those modifications the steering column would be lowered at the top between .65 to 1 inch. That would change the steering shaft angle where it attaches to the joints and shaft that go to to the steering box.

So I doubt anyone has correctly done this modification unless an original XJ6 console mounted shifter is utilized.

Bob
 
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:38 PM
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Let me add to my previous message. If the "pedestal" is replaced with one from a 3.8s or I believe also a 420 then the column gear selector can be used and the steering column retains its original position. As Mk2's with the BW35 transmission are quite rare in the U.S. I have been unable to confirm this but as it uses ancillary selector mounting parts with the same part numbers as 3.8S and 420 I assume it will be the same design. When Jaguar designed the selector for BW (non DG250) Mk2 platform cars they used the different pedestal. Undoubtidly to allow the clearance for the selector cable lever while not changing the column position.

Now is it worth the time and effort to do the metal work involved. If not I either use a non period console mounted shifter of resort to the original DG250 transmission. Can anyone tell me how I regualrly find myself in this position. I know the answer.

If anyone has a derelict 3.8S for salvage please let me know.

Thanks.

Bob
 
 
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