MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

New Would-be owner - seeks advice

 
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:18 AM
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Default New Would-be owner - seeks advice

Hello all. Although I need to sell another old British car first I have been given in principal permission by minister of finance to seriously look at getting a jag.
I have limited funds. I live in Australia. My dream car would be a reasonable condition, drive-able and register-able manual 3.8L Mk2 with wire wheels but that is out of my price range. Second would be a 3.4L Mk 2 manual with wire wheels but I dont want to do loads of restoration. Replacing bits here and there and doing some mechanical work myself is fine but I want something I can enjoy know and not 5 years and $20,000 later
An other alternative is an S Type 3.8L manual with wire wheels which would be in my price range. I know that the S types do get bagged for the look of the rear end and roof and rear wheel arch lines but despite not being as beautiful as a Mk 2 they are still a darn fine looking vehicle.
I know that automatic versions of these cars are available and cheaper but I really like the idea of the manual.
I have owned a few interesting (classic ) cars over the years but never Jags.
I would be interested in hearing any thoughts from you good people who have much more experience than I with these vehicles
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:17 PM
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191 views and no responses.... hmmmmm. I suspect I havent made it clear what I was hoping for from the members here.
Basically what I am asking is am I better off getting a mediocre mk2 or a good S type for around the same money? Realise this is all personal opinion but would be interested in the general opinions of those on this site.
Thanks
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:49 PM
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I'm obviously biased. The S type is the better motor car by some margin with the IRS etc. I've personally never liked the Mk2 tail but then I prefer the Aston DB6 with Kamm tail to the DB5.

Many don't share Cyril Crouch's misgivings about the S Type styling. It has stood the test of time.

S Types are still better value but that is changing. Grab one while you can.

I would go for an S Type. What is not to like?



 
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:04 PM
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Thanks Glyn. I also think the darker coloured S types look better than the light coloured ones eg

vs
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:05 PM
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I agree with Glyn, although I am more of the performance enthusiast and he prefers stock. The Jaguar 3.8s I personally think is a better looking car, especially the bumpers and the rear fenders look much cleaner. The 3.8s is definitely a better performing car with full independent suspension, and a better quality interior. Right now they are still cheaper often than a MKII and that to me is because of MKII was more affordable and has some racing history but the 3.8s is definitely a better car for performance. I would highly recommend a 3.8s but try to push your budget and do NOT get a car that is a fixer upper as Jaguars are more expensive than other cars for parts and it will always be cheaper if you can find one close to or the way you would want it as it will be more expensive to do it yourself. There will always things you would want to tweak or improve so get one already restored if possible...
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:12 PM
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Thanks Primaz. Good advice
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:15 PM
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I just need to sell an MGB. Could take 1 week or 6 months.
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wouldbeowner View Post
Thanks Glyn. I also think the darker coloured S types look better than the light coloured ones eg
Yes ~ I prefer them in darker colours which is why I went BRG. My thread is linked in my signature.

I was based in Sydney for some time & there are some nice rust free S Types in Aus. The Jag clubs are quite active there as well.

Spares are not too bad. Certainly more affordable than Benz & Porsche etc. when restoring. There are also more S Type spares available now than there were 20 years ago.
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:28 PM
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Your car looks magnificent Glyn but how often do you drive it. Having what almost looks like a concourse level car is a double edged sword. There is the expense and work involved getting it to that condition but then, once in that condition, there must be a reluctance to drive it other than an occasional saturday when there is no chance of rain. How do you balance that? Cheers
 
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:38 PM
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My car was built to be put in the concours once to be rated! The car is no trailer queen. It has recently been registered & gets driven. If I can't drive it I don't want it. Yes it is a high days & holidays car to have fun with. Not a daily driver.


This was an Aus car that I always admired.



 
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Old 06-14-2019, 04:25 AM
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You have to choose what you like the look of and whether, if applicable, it is worth the extra money.

You should definitely drive a good stock one of each, because they do feel different.

The S-type as stock is softer sprung than the Mk2, but it is fairly straightforward to buy uprated springs and adjustable dampers if you seek a firmer ride. There is also a handling kit from Harvey Bailey Engineering that adds a rear anti-roll bar for reduced roll.

Performance wise, the 3.8S is broadly comparable with the 3.4 Mk2, (because of the extra weight of the IRS and longer bodyshell) but do any of us really drive these cars flat out? Primaz excepted, of course. . Would we really notice the difference between a 3.4 and 3.8? There's only a few bhp between them, after all.

The 3.8 Mk2 will I think always be 'the one to have' and therefore carry a premium, because of its racing pedigree and being a favourite with cops and robbers.

But, over a typically bumpy bendy British B-road, I'd rather be in my S-type any day.
 
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:49 AM
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I think John Bolster stated it well in his original Autosport roadtest ~ "As regards the performance of the S-type, this can be defined as slower than the Mk 2 in figures but faster across country. The more luxurious car is naturally heavier than its smaller brother, but its independent rear suspension allows it to corner faster. Furthermore, the rear passengers receive a much less hectic ride, which again encourages the driver to press on. The extra weight is noticeable during hard acceleration, but again the better traction allows all the power to be used, particularly on wet roads. There is a wonderfully effortless feeling about the way in which the car runs, seeming to have power to spare at all times and never becoming noisy when pressed. On fast roads, the S-type cruises in restful silence at over 100mph."
 
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:38 AM
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While the s-type is undoubtedly a lovely car (I had one 15 years or so back) if you want a mk2 then save up and buy one or consider a cheaper 2.4 or Daimler v8 that you can upgrade the engine in if you want in future.

My advise is only buy an S If it's what you want, if it's a compromise because you can't stretch to a mk2 you will probably regret it.
 
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:08 PM
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I'm going to be the wet blanket at the party here.
Finding a MK II or even an S-Type in derivable restorable condition with wire wheels and a standard trans at a reasonable price will be next to impossible.

The days of the "barn finds" of rust free, or almost rust free cars (but some-what tattered condition) are long gone.
You may get lucky and find one in an estate sale where someone's Dad passed away and the family just wants to get rid of things.

You also may come across 340 or 240 at a good price, since they are not actually a MK II, so purists will turn their noses up it, that in turn will bring down the value. (which will be an advantage for you)

If you're good at rebuilding mechanicals, then find one one with a bad trans/engine, but a good body, or vice-versa, depending in your skill level.

If you can't do any of the work your self or at a good level of competence, and you have to hire people to do the work, then you need wheel barrel full's of money.
 
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:45 AM
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I think all of the Jaguar classic sedans look nice and originally was going to get a MKII. I ended up choosing a 3.8s because it looked better to me as the overall shape was more clean and when I saw and experienced the better performance of the fully independent suspension, higher quality wood/interior, I choose the 3.8s. The 3.8s does handle better than the MKII. I am newer to the Jaguars but find it weird that the MKII has such a following when technically it is not as good as the 3.8s. They are both look nice but the 3.8s has a way better suspension setup. You can modify both for more modern performance but I think the 3.8s modified has the edge with the better suspension. Having modified my 3.8s and am still going to do some more upgrades I would say that the 3.8s will handle way better than a MKII modified if you are modifying the stock design. Right now my car is based on the stock design but with fully adjustable coil overs and other mods and it can hold it's own against modern sport sedans and even modified modern cars and I doubt a MK II could keep up at that pace. Even if you upgrade to better springs, adjustable shocks on a MKII it is still non-indendant suspension in the rear so it will never handle as well as an 3.8s. I even thought that my Jag would be a British racing green until I saw the silver blue metallic stock paint of the 3.8s.

None of these cars are cheap to restore so since the original poster seems to be on a budget, I would rule out a MKII and go for the 3.8s but push your limit as the bits will always add up to more than buying one done in most cases. Right now here is one for 14,999 US https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Jaguar...%7C1000%7C2500 and there are others a bit closer to $30K that are really pristine but do not go for one that needs major body work, etc. and think you can restore it on the cheap as these cars are will take a lot to make really fully restored or even performance modified. Do not buy any Jaguar ultra cheap and think you will build it up on your own and be cheaper as that is not reality. Yes you can find a 3.8s sometimes less than $10K but often they are major rust cars that you will end up spending another $10K just on the body so you'd be better off finding one for more in much better shape.

If you are more into just cruising and comfort the bigger sedans like the MK X are often super cheap for a really decent one such as this one for under $6K https://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Jaguar...%7C1000%7C2500
 

Last edited by primaz; 06-15-2019 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:09 AM
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In SA you can buy a good clean, rust free runner with newish paint, S Type for GBP 13,500 or USD 15,500. Aus has similarities with our market but a little more expensive from memory. A US acquaintance of mine bought one recently & did a classic rally from Cape Town to Victoria Falls etc. The Mk2 premium in SA has dwindled steadily. Properly restored near concours cars will fetch a lot more (multiples of that) but sadly often leave the country.

We built both cars here from CKD kits with local machining of engines & some other local content.

There were a lot more Mk2's built globally than S Types.

This honest original car is available for $13,000 but needs plenty of work

https://www.gumtree.co.za/a-classic-...20910362428109

A number of older S Type semi restorations have sold recently for $15K to 18K (sorry last pic left as sold) ~ this car had nice paint & chrome with relatively new biscuit leather interior, new carpets, headlining. Engine compartment & underneath of car reasonably maintained but original. Wires OK etc. Considered a good project car & immediate driver.


 

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Old 06-15-2019, 11:41 AM
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This is what $15,500 would buy you in a 3.8 Mk2 in SA. Reasonable car that still needs some tidying.

https://www.junkmail.co.za/classic-c...91aabce40f8c23


 
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:10 PM
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Regarding the relative merits of the 3.8 Mk 2 and the 3.8S : there is no question that the interior of the 3.8S is more luxurious, nor that the rear suspension is better. But with regard to overall body shape, the Mk 2 design is virtual perfection, with every element in balance (my 1966 3.8 Mk 2, Canadian-market specification, 26,000 original miles):

 
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:14 PM
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As Orlando says beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. To me the Mk2 tail is an unstyled hump that looks too short & lacks definition. Of a bygone era. Your car is lovely but I have always failed to appreciate the Mk2 tail going right back to being an Alfa loving kid of which I owned a number. I've always looked at the Mk2 tail as unfinished & wondered if Lyons had run out of ideas. But as I say earlier. Even in the heyday of the Goldfinger Aston DB5, I preffered the DB6. So these feelings are long lived & deep-seated. I also fail to appreciate the wayward live axle.






 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 06-16-2019 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:39 AM
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Hello all. Just laying here re-reading this thread. I think a lot of these old classic vehicles are like women in that our first impression and desire is often based on looks but after we have them for a while our relationship changes. We can get used to the look of any vehicle parked in the garage over a period of time but the feeling of driving them, the smell, the sound are the thing you live with in the long term. I have been looking at a couple of 3.8s on the web that are in my expected price range. One sounds a bit rough with dodgy paint and worn interior. The seller indicates there is probably corrosion under the paint work. Mechanics sound original. The other vehicle has a very good condition interior and original mechanics with good oil pressure.
It does have some rust at bottom of door pillars. It is registered and driveable as far as i can tell.
But there arent that many available at the moment.
Mechanically i am ok. I can do reasonably complex work eg remove motor, head gaskets etc but would baulk at doing gearboxes (apart from simply swapping them over). Respraying and rust work are simply out of my skill set.
 

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