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One other thing that i was told was that the s type i enquired about did not have leather upholstery but another material used by jag - a form of vynil.
Does anyone know what the story would be with that?
cheers
Very late cars were cheapened in manufacture by replacing leather with Ambla (vinyl) upholstery, cheaper carpets, removal of fog lamps (replaced with dummy horn grills), reduced paint colour & upholstery range etc. On the 3.4-litre car, the Powr-Lok limited-slip differential was dropped. (late 1967)
Some of these were made optional extras.
Another piece of advice. Don't be impatient when buying classics. It can take time for the right car to become available. Also contact the clubs. Many good cars change hands without going to open market. Always haggle on price.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 06-16-2019 at 11:12 AM.
Hello all. Just laying here re-reading this thread. I think a lot of these old classic vehicles are like women in that our first impression and desire is often based on looks but after we have them for a while our relationship changes. We can get used to the look of any vehicle parked in the garage over a period of time but the feeling of driving them, the smell, the sound are the thing you live with in the long term. I have been looking at a couple of 3.8s on the web that are in my expected price range. One sounds a bit rough with dodgy paint and worn interior. The seller indicates there is probably corrosion under the paint work. Mechanics sound original. The other vehicle has a very good condition interior and original mechanics with good oil pressure.
It does have some rust at bottom of door pillars. It is registered and driveable as far as i can tell.
But there arent that many available at the moment.
Mechanically i am ok. I can do reasonably complex work eg remove motor, head gaskets etc but would baulk at doing gearboxes (apart from simply swapping them over). Respraying and rust work are simply out of my skill set.
You should let us know your real price range, again push yourself to go higher as buying one in a much better condition is the way to go. All Jaguars can be expensive to rebuild such as the wood, to do it right you can easily spend $2-5K and don't buy one with rust issues if you can because that will be more money than you think. If you need to it is best to save a bit more then buy one in a better condition as buying that is a basket case will be more expensive than saving money a little longer and buying one in a better condition.
It appears that in your area you are likely to find a good quality 3.8s for around $15K and the MKII in the same condition will be more but another option is the 420 that was made in several body styles and those often are around $5K less than a 3.8s. Just because you are willing to do mechanical, etc. does NOT mean you will save any dollars you are more likely to spend more time and money to get the car on the road than just buying a car in good condition. Unless you are like some of us with very particular desires and have no worry about the extra money and/or are willing to spend more but want to do some of it yourself, you will save just buying one already restored, modified, etc. and thus just buy the model in your budget or save a up a bit more $$
As Orlando says beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. To me the Mk2 tail is an unstyled hump that looks too short & lacks definition. Of a bygone era. Your car is lovely but I have always failed to appreciate the Mk2 tail going right back to being an Alfa loving kid of which I owned a number. I've always looked at the Mk2 tail as unfinished & wondered if Lyons had run out of ideas. But as I say earlier. Even in the heyday of the Goldfinger Aston DB5, I preffered the DB6. So these feelings are long lived & deep-seated. I also fail to appreciate the wayward live axle.
I agree if you look at the back end of the MKII it looks like it should be a little longer, the rear fenders look a bit weird to me and I like what the 3.8s did with the body covering part of the wheel and they eliminated the ugly seems of the rear fenders. Also the bumpers on the MKII look too chunky, the rear section where the license plate is also not as sleek, and the rear taillights do not look as sleek as the 3.8s. Take a look at the MKII above and then look at those sections on my 3.8s. I know the MKII was raced more but I really think the 3.8s really deserves a higher value as technically it is better, along with style, and to me it was that is was more expensive and was not sold in as many numbers. If it was used in racing I bet it would smoke a MKII.
Lyons always applied strong frontal styling elements to his cars. This nondescript, unimaginative hump backed rear styling started in 1948 with the XK120 & it's silly tail lights, carried through 140 to 150 & the MkVII & derivatives, Mk1 & Mk2. Not his finest hour.
To me the E Type is the only classic Jag that deserves accolades for exceptional styling approaching perfection. (other than the Sayers' racing designs possibly)
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 06-16-2019 at 06:41 PM.
Hello all. Although I need to sell another old British car first I have been given in principal permission by minister of finance to seriously look at getting a jag.
I have limited funds. I live in Australia. My dream car would be a reasonable condition, drive-able and register-able manual 3.8L Mk2 with wire wheels but that is out of my price range. Second would be a 3.4L Mk 2 manual with wire wheels but I dont want to do loads of restoration. Replacing bits here and there and doing some mechanical work myself is fine but I want something I can enjoy know and not 5 years and $20,000 later
An other alternative is an S Type 3.8L manual with wire wheels which would be in my price range. I know that the S types do get bagged for the look of the rear end and roof and rear wheel arch lines but despite not being as beautiful as a Mk 2 they are still a darn fine looking vehicle.
I know that automatic versions of these cars are available and cheaper but I really like the idea of the manual.
I have owned a few interesting (classic ) cars over the years but never Jags.
I would be interested in hearing any thoughts from you good people who have much more experience than I with these vehicles
I would agree with the buy it now before it's too late theory. Would you get a MK1? Hum . . . a bit primitive maybe. MK2s are at a high point and a bit more, making them unaffordable for the likes of me. (youtube of wayne carini's 100 pnt MK2 which he expects to top 100K US at auction).
The S will only increase in value. With a slightly lowered stance and wires these cars look more refined to me (more jag-ish i.e. E type) than the 1 and 2. I got a rust free non runner for 5K and knowing it would need work, was happy to get it. Oz must have some pretty dry cars. Good luck with the B sale and get ready for some real over engineered motoring.
Concours 100> point cars can fetch crazy money if the right buyer happens to be present. In other markets being an Auto would detract from value. Carini has been way out with Jag values previously.
Probably more realistic ~ Mk2 pricing has softened substantially in many markets:
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 06-16-2019 at 08:55 PM.
Primaz and Glyn. Great advice and opinions. I am defintely more interested in the s type than the mk2 though i do think the mk 2 is a beautiful vehicle.
I am hoping to get around the $13k mark for the mg. i guess i could scrape up another 2 or 3k pretty quickly. There are a lot of competing intersts for funds with my youngish family so i dont think i can fairly pit much more than that into a car. So, lets say budget is $16k.
Seems to me there are three critical areas in vehicles. The exterior, the interior and the drive train.
What i would like:-
a vehicle that does not need any immediate work to make it driveable or registerable.
Exterior - no significant rust, duco in reasonable condition, darker colour, wire wheels
interior - leather, can be a little tired but no rips woodwork complete, all gauges working
drive train - 3.8 manual od. Either lowish mileage or motor reworked within last 60k miles.
Does this sound unreasonable, is it realistic?
Primaz and Glyn. Great advice and opinions. I am defintely more interested in the s type than the mk2 though i do think the mk 2 is a beautiful vehicle.
I am hoping to get around the $13k mark for the mg. i guess i could scrape up another 2 or 3k pretty quickly. There are a lot of competing intersts for funds with my youngish family so i dont think i can fairly pit much more than that into a car. So, lets say budget is $16k.
Seems to me there are three critical areas in vehicles. The exterior, the interior and the drive train.
What i would like:-
a vehicle that does not need any immediate work to make it driveable or registerable.
Exterior - no significant rust, duco in reasonable condition, darker colour, wire wheels
interior - leather, can be a little tired but no rips woodwork complete, all gauges working
drive train - 3.8 manual od. Either lowish mileage or motor reworked within last 60k miles.
Does this sound unreasonable, is it realistic?
I would tell you to scrape up $16K and do not get tempted until you have those funds as I think if you are picky you can find a 3.8s without rust, in good condition meaning the body needs no rust repair at all, not missing any chrome, etc. in good running condition with decent interior. Basically using the HAGERTY scale a 4 and whom knows maybe a 3. I would be firm on zero rust because you have limited funds as if it has rust you better figure $7-10K even if you take all the trim, glass, etc. off and put it back on yourself. Doing the body is a LOT of dollars, even if had no rust, a respray will be $4-7K. I really think you can be picky and find basically a 3.8s with no need to do anything major at all on the body or interior. Wheels are cheap so I would not worry about that. The wood can be very expensive to do right. To redo the interior with leather, a good price would be about $5-6K. You should find a car that looks great inside and out and drives decent. I would continue to save your dollars as you will eventually need to rebuild the engine/trans.
The one I posted currently for sale on Ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Jaguar...YAAOSwRRJc04Bo that you can buy now for $14,999 is to me the level of the car you should be able to buy so be picky DO NOT get a basket case with bodywork, etc. as you do not have the money to do it yourself. Just be picky, get a Jaguar that really needs nothing at all in your eyes and I think if you are patient one will come but it might take 6 months or a couple of years just wait it out.
I agree with Primaz. You need to buy the best you can afford for your intended path. Rust free being crucial. If one is going to restore a car the attitude would be different. Then you want a rust free shell as cheaply as possible. The condition of things that you are going to replace or rebuild anyway does not matter. e.g. upholstery, engine or whatever.
Pricing in the US is likely to be a little softer than Aus but if you take your time pricing in the AUD 16 to 18K area should be possible for what you want. (or you might have to give up on one of your wishes like wire wheels & fit them later for an exceptional car). Sellers always think their cars are worth more than they are.
Looking at a cross section of some of what's available we see this: The cheapest & the most expensive at carsales.com seeming the most honest. The AUD 40K car seems like a full restoration. The AUD 13K car with cloth seats looks tatty. Cars in between have highly ambitious pricing & show signs of bodging.
The truth is that likely none of them will achieve asking price and don't forget the clubs.
Also ~ Australia suffers the same issue as the US. Very high labour cost for what you get. Anything with a labour element in it is overpriced. So get the best you can.
This is why people send their cars to places like Poland & SA for restoration. Poland being the best place on the planet for top notch, more affordable restoration. A collector friend of mine from Dallas has a number of cars under restoration in Poland. I've been tracking his Benz Ponton Cabriolet Hydrak through resto in Poland (one of 11 made). The standard of workmanship is staggeringly good at very reasonable rates.
Good luck!
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 06-17-2019 at 07:12 AM.
Just my opinion. I don't know what the market is like in NSW, but in the PNW 15K won't get you very much. That said, I bought my car for about that. Last year I thought that I had been foolish, and maybe I have. Like you, I wanted a vehicle I could enjoy right away. Instead, I got emotionally invested in a barely-driveable car with numerous mechanical issues that will have to have the entire interior and exterior re-done. Almost every shop that I have spoken with wants $10,000 or more for their service. So when you are looking at Mk2s or 3.8Ses (in North America anyway), what I have seen is:
Exterior paint - 10K-20K
Interior Leather & Carpet - 10K-15K(installed)
Interior wood trim - 4K
Mechanical - ???
Modernizations - Sky's the limit. Understand that 1960s cars are from another Era - I believe you are going to want some "modern" conveniences.
This isn't all bad - I am not going to accept these prices. I am doing a lot of this work myself. I realize that I may do a shoddy job at first, and may have to get stuff re-done. But what I am doing now is better than how it used to be.
My bottom line: If you want a car that you can drive almost every day that does not require a lot of work to be aesthetically pleasing, save you money a year or 2, then buy. Buy a car that already has the things that you need, and maybe some of the things that you want. Otherwise you stand pretty good odds of ending up like me - 3 years later with a half-done car. Drives well, just doesn't have an interior, and needs a paint job.
Just my opinion. I don't know what the market is like in NSW, but in the PNW 15K won't get you very much. That said, I bought my car for about that. Last year I thought that I had been foolish, and maybe I have. Like you, I wanted a vehicle I could enjoy right away. Instead, I got emotionally invested in a barely-driveable car with numerous mechanical issues that will have to have the entire interior and exterior re-done. Almost every shop that I have spoken with wants $10,000 or more for their service. So when you are looking at Mk2s or 3.8Ses (in North America anyway), what I have seen is:
Exterior paint - 10K-20K
Interior Leather & Carpet - 10K-15K(installed)
Interior wood trim - 4K
Mechanical - ???
Modernizations - Sky's the limit. Understand that 1960s cars are from another Era - I believe you are going to want some "modern" conveniences.
This isn't all bad - I am not going to accept these prices. I am doing a lot of this work myself. I realize that I may do a shoddy job at first, and may have to get stuff re-done. But what I am doing now is better than how it used to be.
My bottom line: If you want a car that you can drive almost every day that does not require a lot of work to be aesthetically pleasing, save you money a year or 2, then buy. Buy a car that already has the things that you need, and maybe some of the things that you want. Otherwise you stand pretty good odds of ending up like me - 3 years later with a half-done car. Drives well, just doesn't have an interior, and needs a paint job.
Gene,
If you investigate you can do a bit better. I was able to do the body/paint for about $7K which included re-chroming the bumpers, interior of new carpet including trunk taking a Vadenplas complete seats sectioning the rear seat by 1 foot, reskinning in leather, redoing all four door panels, council and headliner for $5500. Wood trim can easily be $2-5K so your 4K is about right to make it really quality as the DIY ones I have seen are NOT ideal but far away are not bad. You are right, save up and get a car that needs little to no work and you will be better off. For me even though I was going to do a custom resomod, I started with a Jaguar with no rust, clear title and drivable as anything with rust will be a money pit.
If you investigate you can do a bit better. I was able to do the body/paint for about $7K which included re-chroming the bumpers, interior of new carpet including trunk taking a Vadenplas complete seats sectioning the rear seat by 1 foot, reskinning in leather, redoing all four door panels, council and headliner for $5500. Wood trim can easily be $2-5K so your 4K is about right to make it really quality as the DIY ones I have seen are NOT ideal but far away are not bad. You are right, save up and get a car that needs little to no work and you will be better off. For me even though I was going to do a custom restomod, I started with a Jaguar with no rust, clear title and drivable as anything with rust will be a money pit.
Not sure when you got your car done but I've noticed prices going up about 20% in the 3-ish years I've had our car. But feel free to PM me with contacts - I want to be wrong. Your prices look very nice. Next year when/if money's a bit looser maybe I can make some serious headway. I'm in total agreement about the rust, and that's with all these classic cars. I got very lucky (with rust) I think. I've only needed 3 body repair sections so far(previous owner did the 4 door bottoms)
Not sure when you got your car done but I've noticed prices going up about 20% in the 3-ish years I've had our car. But feel free to PM me with contacts - I want to be wrong. Your prices look very nice. Next year when/if money's a bit looser maybe I can make some serious headway. I'm in total agreement about the rust, and that's with all these classic cars. I got very lucky (with rust) I think. I've only needed 3 body repair sections so far(previous owner did the 4 door bottoms)
I sent you a PM, my work was done about 3-4 years ago and I have done other work with those shops and the prices are about the same. Jaguar owners sometimes think that their car is so unique you have to go Jaguar shops, etc. The reality is shops familiar with more hot rods and classics are often very well capable on working on Jaguars at a better price. As an example Datsun shops that work on the older Z cars are all used to multiple carbureted setups from triple Minuki/Weber, ITB's and definitely SU's as Datsuns use SU's and they also know better sources for better than factory rebuilds than most British shops and at better prices...
I sent you a PM, my work was done about 3-4 years ago and I have done other work with those shops and the prices are about the same. Jaguar owners sometimes think that their car is so unique you have to go Jaguar shops, etc. The reality is shops familiar with more hot rods and classics are often very well capable on working on Jaguars at a better price. As an example Datsun shops that work on the older Z cars are all used to multiple carbureted setups from triple Minuki/Weber, ITB's and definitely SU's as Datsuns use SU's and they also know better sources for better than factory rebuilds than most British shops and at better prices...
I agree 100% with your analysis. 3 years ago I thought that Jag shops were the best options too. I have broadened my mind and my searches since.
I would encourage the OP to get whatever he wants, and "own it" when he drives it no matter its condition. There are LOTS of people who appreciate the form of our vehicles. But there are lots of other people who think that a car is "just something to get you from Point A to Point B". We're not doing this for the latter
Hello all. Been a while since I posted but I have an update. First I sold the MGB. Second I did some ringing around and left my name at a couple of places and have been offered a vehicle that wasnt advertised. It is a 64 Stype 3.8 manual overdrive in quite nice condition, no rust, most basic jobs done (eg suspension, clutch etc) - pretty much as I had hoped for when making my wish list up. The current owner and I have a digital handshake agreement and he seems like an honest and genuine fellow.
The vehicle is still about 7 weeks away from my ownership so I dont want to compromise him or jinx the deal by saying too much but it sure sounds like a nice vehicle.
06-16-2019, 06:47 AM
