MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

No 420?

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Old Jul 21, 2023 | 10:34 PM
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Default No 420?

I see every other major model listed, but no 420 'S' compact. Because they are the most unwanted Jaguar? Hell, even the Daimler is mentioned, so maybe not!
Been said it's the most refined pre-Leyland sedan. Just curious, not furious. Kind of prefer it that way, actually. Keeps pricing down, plus I favor the obscure stuff.
 
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Old Jul 22, 2023 | 03:22 AM
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It took me a few seconds to understand that you are referring to the title of the subforum. Yes, 420 is missing and production of the Daimler version of the 420, the Sovereign, ran to the end of 1968, which doesn't fit the 1955-67. The 420 is often overlooked: even the SNG website is confused about it. It suffers because, though in most ways it was the best of the family, it had a short production and was totally outshone by its immediate successor, the XJ6.
 
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Old Jul 22, 2023 | 03:42 AM
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Yes ~ The 420 is a darn nice car & people like Thorsen have to ask "Do I belong here" We must get Admin to fix the title. Even the Sovereign should be included, though it was really a UK car only. The Daimler they are talking about is really the Mk2 based V8.
 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jul 22, 2023 at 04:03 AM.
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Old Jul 22, 2023 | 08:13 AM
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British Motor Holdings dropped the Daimler from their US range about the same time as the introduction of the Sovereign so it never had a chance to reach there. I doubt they sold many SP250 Darts and don't think they ever offered the 2½ litre V8 saloon.
 
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Old Jul 22, 2023 | 08:22 PM
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420s did make it to Australia in both Jag and Daimler guise.

There was a bit of confusion in the second-hand motor dealers.
Around 1980 I remember seeing a 420 in North Queensland being advertised as an early XJ6 based on its manufactured date.
I also encountered this at a motor wrecker (parting out?) in the 1990s while I was chasing XJ6 parts.

Sadly, a lot of the S type and 420s were wrecked for their rear ends which were highly desirable for hot rods making them now relatively scarce.
 
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Old Jul 22, 2023 | 09:36 PM
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We built 850 420's in SA. Daimler Benz jealously protected it's trademark in markets like ours.
 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jul 22, 2023 at 09:43 PM.
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Old Jul 22, 2023 | 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck
We built 850 420's in SA. Daimler Benz jealously protected it's trademark in markets like ours.
Where the 420s South Africa got CKDs? (Complete Knock Downs - to be assembled)

Or@Bill Mac maybe CKD happened in Aus?
 

Last edited by David Lagonda; Jul 22, 2023 at 11:02 PM.
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Old Jul 23, 2023 | 02:54 AM
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David
Australia did not "do" CKD in Jags or Daimler. All were imported from the UK.
We had GM and Ford manufacturing locally plus eventually Nissan and Mitsubishi.
 
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Old Jul 23, 2023 | 03:19 AM
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British Motor Holdings and British Leyland weren't very good at consolidating their brands. What they achieved was largely by inaction and close to useless in terms of cost saving. In the case of Daimler, BMH dropped it from the range they offered in the US in the 1960s. Later, BL failed to re-register the name. A respectful decade or two later, Daimler-Benz (or D-Chrysler or ..) registered it. BL took similar (in)action with Austin-Healey and Mini-Cooper. It saved them a few pounds per car, but probably lost them far more in sales. They tried to drop Daimler from other markets. It resulted in a few creative minds selling 'Daimler kits'. As for South Africa, I've no knowledge. However. I'd expect the story would be more like the US.
 
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Old Jul 23, 2023 | 11:41 AM
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@Peter3442 "BMH" --- That's the same as BMC, British Motor Corp.?
 
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Old Jul 23, 2023 | 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by David Lagonda
@Peter3442 "BMH" --- That's the same as BMC, British Motor Corp.?
Almost. When Jaguar merged with BMC, the conditions were to keep the companies separate, mainly to ensure independence for Jaguar. They created British Motor Holdings as a holding company that owned both, but would leave BMC and Jaguar to continue much as before the merger. Unfortunately that didn't last very long. BMC wasn't financially strong and the consequent merger with Leyland trucks, who owned Rover and Triumph, produced British Leyland, a total catastrophe.
 
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Old Jul 23, 2023 | 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by David Lagonda
Where the 420s South Africa got CKDs? (Complete Knock Downs - to be assembled)

Or@Bill Mac maybe CKD happened in Aus?
They were partial CKD kits due to our local content program which was in phase 2 by that time & 53% by weight prior to us moving to value. Clever Lyons talked our government into Jaguar sending stress relieved aged blank Blocks & Heads to SA (within the weight target). They were machined here on the latest, new state of the art equipment for the time & engines assembled here. (equipment provided at SA Taxpayer expense). All Batteries, Upholstery, Radiators (by Silverton) etc. etc. were local ~ long list. Many items were more durable as they suited our conditions better. Our engines were fabulous ~ Better than anything built on the antiquated gear at Browns Lane much of it which was ancient from Standard & the Daimler purchase. Lyons was parsimonious to say the least. Bodies were built over bucks provided by Browns Lane & more accurate than Pressed Steel.

By the XJ6 all bodies were pressed here by Steelmobile.
 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jul 23, 2023 at 01:02 PM.
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