Retrofitting PAS to a Daimler 250
What to do with the steering in my Mk2 is a question that I have bubbling on the back burner. It depends a little on what's already there. My car is not power assisted at present. If it had the later, torsion bar, higher ratio Burman or the Marles Varamatic system, I'd probably stick with them and try to make them work as well as possible. I'll call that option zero as it's not open to many of us.
With the manual steering box (or an early assisted Burman), I believe that it's worth changing. I see three options:
1. The Marles Varamatic seems to work well. It's not very easy to find (though a complete front subframe and steering was on ebay UK recently for about £450) and I'm not sure about availability of spares.
2. Electric assistance on the steering column (from Easy Steer, EZ or adapt a Corsa or MG column). These are neat systems. The EZ one is rather expensive (small companies pay a lot of tax in the Netherlands). If I went this route, I'd also swap the steering box for the high ratio ICS unit that I mentioned in a post above. I'd be hoping for more precision and less arm twirling.
3. Rack and pinion. Few modern cars have anything else; even Mercedes and BMW seem to have abandoned steering boxes. Unless we do a lot of engineering or go for a very special, non-Jaguar rack (either of which may become expensive, but see for example the beautiful equipment from Retro Rack in Australia), the geometry will not be perfect. Notably, there will be some bump steer that can't be eliminated with a conventional end take off rack. Is the level of imperfection large enough to cause problems? That depends on who you ask and how well the total system of steering and suspension is sorted. Certainly, there are a lot of contributors to this forum who are very happy with their rack and pinion steering.
Rack versus box is a question that can be argued for ever. You pay your money and live with your choice. And, of course, there's always the Bob Jane option though it's beyond my capability. When asked about the Mk1 anf Mk2 steering, the greta Australan racing driver replied, "You don't use it; you steer with the throttle." He applied similar logic to the Moss gear box and even the Dunlop brakes.
With the manual steering box (or an early assisted Burman), I believe that it's worth changing. I see three options:
1. The Marles Varamatic seems to work well. It's not very easy to find (though a complete front subframe and steering was on ebay UK recently for about £450) and I'm not sure about availability of spares.
2. Electric assistance on the steering column (from Easy Steer, EZ or adapt a Corsa or MG column). These are neat systems. The EZ one is rather expensive (small companies pay a lot of tax in the Netherlands). If I went this route, I'd also swap the steering box for the high ratio ICS unit that I mentioned in a post above. I'd be hoping for more precision and less arm twirling.
3. Rack and pinion. Few modern cars have anything else; even Mercedes and BMW seem to have abandoned steering boxes. Unless we do a lot of engineering or go for a very special, non-Jaguar rack (either of which may become expensive, but see for example the beautiful equipment from Retro Rack in Australia), the geometry will not be perfect. Notably, there will be some bump steer that can't be eliminated with a conventional end take off rack. Is the level of imperfection large enough to cause problems? That depends on who you ask and how well the total system of steering and suspension is sorted. Certainly, there are a lot of contributors to this forum who are very happy with their rack and pinion steering.
Rack versus box is a question that can be argued for ever. You pay your money and live with your choice. And, of course, there's always the Bob Jane option though it's beyond my capability. When asked about the Mk1 anf Mk2 steering, the greta Australan racing driver replied, "You don't use it; you steer with the throttle." He applied similar logic to the Moss gear box and even the Dunlop brakes.
Good summary Peter. We shall stay away from my aversion to end steer racks & Ackermann angles. Personal sensitivity to tyre scrub etc.
One comment regarding the Marles Bendix Varamatic box. It is not difficult to modify a standard subframe/crossmember to place a dimple in it. Orlando & other members here have done just that. Varamatic was first fitted to the MkX, then 420 then later S Types & 340's etc.
The jump from the Type 1 Burman PAS box to the Varamatic is huge in feel. From the Type 2 with torsion bar to Varamatic less so. Varamatic spares are available.
One comment regarding the Marles Bendix Varamatic box. It is not difficult to modify a standard subframe/crossmember to place a dimple in it. Orlando & other members here have done just that. Varamatic was first fitted to the MkX, then 420 then later S Types & 340's etc.
The jump from the Type 1 Burman PAS box to the Varamatic is huge in feel. From the Type 2 with torsion bar to Varamatic less so. Varamatic spares are available.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Feb 21, 2021 at 08:39 AM.
There does appear to be a myriad of options out there. & I agree that the price has risen significantly since David fitted his system in 2017. However I can see a couple of advantages to buying from the Aust distributor. One is that they tell me I should get the system within 7-10 days from ordering. Secondly it will be subject to Australia’s very strict & comprehensive consumer protection laws, which will make any warranty claims much easier to enforce. But I do need to think this through a lot more & examine all my available options.
Gary, As you are in Australia, it's worth asking Retro Rack if they can provide anything for the Mk2 family. They seem to specialise in American cars, but their product is a work of art and has the potential to overcome all the geometry issues of racks in our cars. They were featured in Jay Leno's garage. If its function is half as good as its looks, it's the device to have:
RetroRack - Power Steering Rack and Pinion kits and Automotive Products
RetroRack - Power Steering Rack and Pinion kits and Automotive Products
Hi Gary,
Your comments re buying locally makes sense, from memory the Aussie agent at the time was on a supply and fit basis, It was not cost effective to send the car to Sydney. If you would like I can send you copies of the 30+ color photos the EZ company sent me which shows the installation procedure. One picture very clearly shows the cut out of the bulkhead box section. Just send me your postal address to djbruce7@bigpond.com.
Regards,
David Bruce.
Your comments re buying locally makes sense, from memory the Aussie agent at the time was on a supply and fit basis, It was not cost effective to send the car to Sydney. If you would like I can send you copies of the 30+ color photos the EZ company sent me which shows the installation procedure. One picture very clearly shows the cut out of the bulkhead box section. Just send me your postal address to djbruce7@bigpond.com.
Regards,
David Bruce.
Well the kit’s in. & even my Mechanic’s impressed with the difference it’s made. I pick it up this morning. I could’ve got it yesterday but the car needs a Qld Mod Plate to make it road legal, as the kit doesn’t have Australian Design Rules (ADR) approval. It’s costing me an extra $300, but it will make the car easier to sell, should I ever need to.
I really want to thank David Bruce (domain58) & his wife Joan, for the assistance they gave me by emailing 20 installation pics. It really helped my Mechanic nut the job out, & probably saved me a lot of money by making the job quicker.
I’m really looking forward to driving it. Today’s a good day!😎
I really want to thank David Bruce (domain58) & his wife Joan, for the assistance they gave me by emailing 20 installation pics. It really helped my Mechanic nut the job out, & probably saved me a lot of money by making the job quicker.
I’m really looking forward to driving it. Today’s a good day!😎
Last edited by scatcat; Mar 16, 2021 at 07:02 PM.
Well the kit’s in. & even my Mechanic’s impressed with the difference it’s made. I pick it up this morning. I could’ve got it yesterday but the car needs a Qld Mod Plate to make it road legal, as the kit doesn’t have Australian Design Rules (ADR) approval. It’s costing me an extra $300, but it will make the car easier to sell, should I ever need to.
I really want to thank David Bruce (domain58) & his wife Joan, for the assistance they gave me by emailing 20 installation pics. It really helped my Mechanic nut the job out, & probably saved me a lot of money by making the job quicker.
I’m really looking forward to driving it. Today’s a good day!😎
I really want to thank David Bruce (domain58) & his wife Joan, for the assistance they gave me by emailing 20 installation pics. It really helped my Mechanic nut the job out, & probably saved me a lot of money by making the job quicker.
I’m really looking forward to driving it. Today’s a good day!😎
Thanks for the comments re photos. Pity you live in FNQ other wise we cold meet up and talk Daimlers.
DB.
Wire Wheels are next on the list of improvements. Anybody got any suggestions of what tyres will give me the best grip & comfort? I’m usually a Michelin Man (& no that doesn’t mean I’m fat!) But, as the Wheels are Dunlops I’m thinking I might stay with the all British theme & fit those. Opinions?
& DB I’d love to catch up & talk Daimlers, if either of us ever make the 1200 klm trek into each other’s turf
Michelin XAS tires.
I have them on mine, looks correct and the car handles really well.
180/15's. Even with that size when compared to the Vredestein, at 185/15, the Michelin's are a little taller.
Michelin XAS Tyres - Classic Michelin Tyres (longstonetyres.co.uk)
I have them on mine, looks correct and the car handles really well.
180/15's. Even with that size when compared to the Vredestein, at 185/15, the Michelin's are a little taller.
Michelin XAS Tyres - Classic Michelin Tyres (longstonetyres.co.uk)
My favoured tyres on these cars are Michelin 185VR15 XVS or 185HR15 XVS-P 93H or Dunlop VR SP Sport Aquajet 185R15. They look period correct & are very good tyres. They are 80 Profile (as original). About to fit a set of Michelins to my car.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/m...e-size-243671/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/m...e-size-243671/
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Mar 19, 2021 at 10:13 PM.
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