MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

Tappet noise?

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Old Jul 3, 2020 | 07:15 PM
  #41  
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You need one of these to set up mechanical & vacuum advance on Lucas distrubutors. There are a whole host of competent companies in the UK that can do this for you. I have a very large table of specs for different model Lucas distributors & their specs should you ever need it.








 
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Old Jul 3, 2020 | 07:27 PM
  #42  
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At any rate, here's a thread on the subject.
And the word in that thread should pinging, not pinking _ spell check is not infallible.

Just in case _ pinging is the ignition of fuel in an unwanted time, or way.
A number of things can cause it and when you are talking about ignition timing, it can happen when the spark is too far advanced.
The fuel gets ignited too soon and tries to push the piston down in the opposite direction off natural travel.

One wants the fuel to ignite just at the right time and move the piston in an efficient downward travel, in order for this to happen, it has to be ignited before the piston reaches TDC.
This is because the ignition does happen in an instant, it has to start early so it can apply the explosion of gasses just at the right time to apply the best of it's force to turn the engine over.
The engine pistons travel faster then the ignition of fuel and air, even at idle, that's why the ignition is set to ignite the mixture before the piston reaches the top of the stroke, and in your case, 12BTDC.

As the engine goes faster, the ignition has to start earlier and earlier, and on the jag engine, I think the maximum advance is 32 to 36 degrees at 3200 rpm _ note that is just a rough guess, that can change depending on what pistons you're using and what engine you have.
All of this of course depends on the design of the engine, how much compression it has, stroke, bore size, combustion displacement, the shape of the combustion chamber etc.


https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/m...ibutor-216586/
 
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Old Jul 3, 2020 | 08:01 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by MussieRon
Mine appears to be idling nicely at 500rpm according to a 50 year old gauge that I have to tap in order for it to spring into life each time I start the car. Two questions. What's the ideal idling rpm and how to fix the sticking gauge?
Highly recommended by Register members for instrument servicing & repair.

Speedograph Richfield, specialist automotive accessory manufacturers for all your classic car needs
 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jul 3, 2020 at 08:04 PM.
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Old Jul 4, 2020 | 03:32 PM
  #44  
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You could also try Speedy Cables.https://speedycables.com/ I have used them before so can recommend them. Great and quick service.
 
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Old Jul 15, 2020 | 10:40 AM
  #45  
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1964 Mk2 3.4 man/OD;
This season I´ve become increasingly aware of a former faint/random cold start tappet noise evolving into a very distinct pattern at idling whenever the engine is warm.
The steady 1-2-3-4-5-6-7---1-2-3-4-5-6-7 pattern is barely audible in traffic inside the car with all windows closed. But of course markedly louder than the overall engine noise when recorded with an open bonnet. To stress, both recordings are made under hot engine idling at 6-700 rpm. Whenever driving this noise disappears,
and the engine runs very smooth at all speeds.
The big question is; is it safe & sound to drive the car until my workshop reopens in four weeks, or should it stay parked and unused?
Regards from Oslo/Norway
 
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Old Jul 15, 2020 | 10:56 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by statfunk
1964 Mk2 3.4 man/OD;
This season I´ve become increasingly aware of a former faint/random cold start tappet noise evolving into a very distinct pattern at idling whenever the engine is warm.
The steady 1-2-3-4-5-6-7---1-2-3-4-5-6-7 pattern is barely audible in traffic inside the car with all windows closed. But of course markedly louder than the overall engine noise when recorded with an open bonnet. To stress, both recordings are made under hot engine idling at 6-700 rpm. Whenever driving this noise disappears,
and the engine runs very smooth at all speeds.
The big question is; is it safe & sound to drive the car until my workshop reopens in four weeks, or should it stay parked and unused?
Regards from Oslo/Norway
I wonder if thats a loose timing chain causing it to slap around, whats the oil pressure like? The quiet spot might be when the engine miss's on one cylinder at idle, try pulling off plug caps (with insulated pliers) to see if it changes the noise.

The top chain can be tensioned with the engine in the car, the bottom chain has a hydraulic tensioner and if the oil pressure is low this might cause a rattle at idle.

I would do a compression test, check the tappets and check the tension on the top chain as first things to do which are relatively easy.

Personally I wouldn't drive it until you know what the problem is as you may just make it worse.
 
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Old Jul 15, 2020 | 03:30 PM
  #47  
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That is an odd noise...
The last time I heard something like that is when the valve seats are are ground too much and there is no shim thin enough to get the proper clearance.
What is done is the tip of the valve stem is ground down to get the proper clearance.

This of course creates a new problem, the bucket strikes the valve stem collar and not the top of the shim because the shim is sitting to low in the collar.
What you may be hearing are the valve stem keepers being loosened up every time that given valve opens.

If it's this, DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR, DON'T EVEN RUN IT, the keepers have the potential to come out and cause a valve to drop into the combustion chamber while the engine is running.

It's easy to check this, remove the cam shafts, buckets and make sure that the shims are indeed resting on the end of the valve stems, and not the collars.
 
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Old Jul 15, 2020 | 07:25 PM
  #48  
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Oops...I actually went for a 2 x 10 minutes ride this evening, the idle rattling today being less pronounced perhaps due to the relatively shorter duration rides?
So now after reading your responses I am actually feeling somewhat shaky ...
The oil pressure is reading a healthy +/-45 while driving, sinking to 20-25 while idling. Actually both last year and this season the oil pressure gauge has on several occasions suddenly dropped to zero very fast, and just as suddenly raising back to normal readings. So my workshop put in a new oil pressure sender 2 weeks ago (picture), and the gauge has steadily read the reported values since.
As for compression the last workshop test was back in 2015, reportedly reading 11-12 bar on all six cylinders, and thus being judged and stated as OK.
Before leaving the workshop 2 weeks ago I made the +25 year experienced and certified Jaguar workshop owner listen to the 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 rattling noise.
He said: "no problem, exhaust valves need some minor adjustment, we can most probably fix it by just removing the cam cover - just drive and enjoy your car".
While two other independent and quite experienced semi-pro mechanics listening to the files both advised me to not drive the car - just like you guys said here.
I will let the Norwegian Jaguar agent/importer´s workshop listen to the noise tomorrow, and reporting back to this forum. Thanks a lot for contributing so far,
are those compression and oil pressure numbers making good sense?

PS1: the original engine has now run 130 000 km. In the early 90´s there was an "engine out check" in Denmark @85 000 km; pistons honed, new piston rings and ditto rod bearings, and the entire cylinder head was overhauled, Reportedly done due to heavy coke-coated valves resulting in wear on the valve actuators.

PS2: I have had a few sporadically episodes of backfiring (ignition burps after engine turned off). Two years ago that problem seemimgly solved with a thorough motor flush, yet happens extremely seldom after very long rides.

PS3: 2-3 years ago I experienced increasing ignition knocking, seems permanently solved 2 years ago by proper distributor adjustment and replacing the internal points with the internal electronic Pertronix ignition module.
 

Last edited by statfunk; Jul 15, 2020 at 09:29 PM.
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Old Jul 15, 2020 | 10:59 PM
  #49  
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What is shown in the photo is the brake light switch, not the oil sender.
The oil sender for the gauge is close to where the oil canister is next to the block.
 
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Old Jul 16, 2020 | 04:25 AM
  #50  
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11 to 12 bar is 160 to 175 psi so the compression is very good.
The item you have pointed out in the photo is as Jeff has stated the brake light pressure switch and has nothing to do with the oil pressure. Below is a photo of where the oil pressure sensor is sat on top of the oil filter housing. If your garage has changed the brake light switch and told you it is the oil pressure sensor then I would ask for my money back and not use them again as they are incompetent. It is clear to even a child that the brake pressure switch is at a junction of brake pipes on the right inner wing and nowhere near the engine.

Oil pressure sensor on top of the oil filter housing.
 
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Old Jul 16, 2020 | 05:36 PM
  #51  
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Sorry my bad, it was late and I uploaded the wrong picture, here is the brand new oil pressure sensor.
I guess I also got a new brake light pressure switch at no added cost, kudos to my workshop for that :-)
So even with healthy oil pressure and compression the rattle can still have different and multiple sources, as I now understand.
Hopefully getting some diagnosis next week, prepared to spend $$$$...

 

Last edited by statfunk; Jul 17, 2020 at 05:16 AM.
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