Put head on block, used cam tool to align cam, slackened off the timing chain.

can get either the left cog on or the right cog on but not enough slack to get both on..

tips appreciated.

 

Read the manual, but you may have a bigger problem.
You NEVER EVER move the cams while the head is bolted the block.

The procedure is you put the engine on TDC (top dead centre), so that both pistons "1" and "6" are at TDC. (you need the damper in place and the front timing cover to time the crank properly, it should be at zero when mounting the head)
Set the cams with the tool before it's mated to the block, then you bolt it on.

Depending on where the crank and pistons are and how much you moved the cams to set them with the tool, you may have "tweaked" one of the valves.
Did you at least have the engine on TDC, but still, you never move the cams individually or set them up while the head is bolted to the block.

There's a thread somewhere that goes into this better, I'll see if I can dig it up.

EDIT:
It was a thread that you started.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/m...2/#post2827025

Link to manuals, the section is quite thorough.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/m...k-links-67791/

 

ok sorry to confirm…. I set the cams on the workbench.

set TDC

put the head on the block.

now… I can fit the left or the right not both.. can’t seem to get enough slack in the chain.

I was told to get one bolt in the other, then turn the crank a fraction which apparently will loosen the chain.. I’m terrified to try this.

 

DO NOT turn the crank.

I'm going to assume that the lower timing chain was set properly, with hydraulic tensioner and guides all set correctly ?
Did you follow the procedure in the manual ?

Don't be terrified, you'll be fine as long as you leave the crank and cams alone during this procedure.

It's been a while since a timed one of these engines, so I'll have to brush up with the manual to help you further, and I have to go now.
I'll be back in the afternoon, and others may post, but many of them are in the UK, so it's 6:00 P.M. there now, so eating dinner. (8 hours ahead).

At this point it looks like you need to slacken the top tensioner off some more.
Turn the tensioner counter clock wise to loosen and clock wise to tighten.
Manual says to tension the top chain with the tensioner clock wise, but not dead tight.

This is from memory, so can't be sure, you can look in the section your self, and it will tell you.

 

Previous owner (main dealer) did the block and lower chain - looks like it’s straight off the factory floor. Top chain is as slack as I can make it.

 

I had a look at the instructions in the manual, and I found them to be a bit vague.

It's been more then 20 years since I did my engine, so this is from memory.

I took the sprockets and lubed the inside up so the can move freely on the cams.
I think I removed the serrated plates (red arrow) and snap ring (green arrow) to do this, but I can't remember if there is room to get things out past the aluminum support bracket at the top of the engine.
The grease is to allow the sprockets to move, to give a enough slack in the chain to mount them both.

The concentric tensioner has to be centred upper most to give the slack needed. It needs to be centered on both sides of it's travel.
This should allow both sprockets to be mounted, but the clearance is quite small, so they have to go on quite square to the cam.
Once in place, take up the chain slack in a clock wise direction of the tensioner, but not dead tight, and not so much that you pull the sprockets of the cams.

At this point, mount the serrated plates so the bolt holes mate to the each cam, and if you if they won't line up, then turning the plates 180 degrees should enable the plates to align to the cam holes.

 

thanks, same as what I read (vague is an understatement)

im going to pull the head off and start again.

 

Just hold on. There is something wrong with this procedure. You say that you can't get enough slack on the upper chain to get it onto both sprockets
Do you already have the camshaft sprockets bolted to the camshafts? If so, that is absolutely incorrect.
The camshaft sprockets should be sitting on the mounting plate and retained by 1/2 nuts on the threaded part on your red highlighted carrier.
This should all be done with the chains and sprockets assembled prior to the head being dropped on.
I am actually at this point with my MK2 2.4 engine so I am very current but have probably done this to a dozen engines in my 60 years of Jag ownership.
I will take a photo and put it on this forum.

 

here’s where I am:

head on, timing chain assembly is complete and present.

cams are aligned.

cogs centers were disengaged from the outer and aligned to the holes with the outer tapped onto the cam and one bolt inserted and hand tightened.

Tried to repeat on the other side.. whilst I can align ONE hole in the center I can’t get enough slack to tap the outer onto the cam and cinch down so i can crank 180° to put the second bolts in.

ill take photos when home.

 

Right bank:

On, perfectly square and symmetrical

left bank:

Gap at the top. I’m short of wiggle room by a fraction of a millimeter… I’m wondering if i torque the head down will I gain the slack?

 

Here are the photos of the setup before putting the head on.

Chain and sprockets prior to head going on

 

yes… exactly what I had set up

 

Ok so started again from known good TDC everywhere.

left on, right on

but the right one is not flush - the bolts are in and torqued but the outer cog is not flush so i can’t get the circlip in so I can’t wire them either.

 

Dug around and found a video, jump to the 4:30 part. Watch the whole video it won't hurt, and there's a whole series of them.


You shouldn't have the left cam cover in place at this point, you can't set the serrated plates with that on.

Hopefully this will allow you to get the job done.

 

Left cover is on because the left bank is completely done… the right one is on the the outer cog is not square… I’m going to back out the bolts half way and get mildly violent

will check out the video in the morning - thanks so much

 

The system isn't designed to be set up with one cog bolted hard in place, they have to be done at the same time with the serrated plates totally disengaged from each cog.

The reason why you can't get enough slack is the chain can't move enough to allow the off-set tensioner to move enough.

Don't get mildly violent and force things.

 

Forgive me incase I haven’t made it clear.

both cogs are on, aligned and timed and torqued.


i cant be any more clearer, I’m past the phase you keep repeating. So apologies on my part for not making that more clear.

im stuck because the right hand cog inner and outer are not square - somehow got jammed at an angle. The inner (with the two bolts is flush against the cam. The outer in Katie cornered for want of a better visual description.

im worried I have to strip the entire front of the engine off and remove the timing assy and fit a new cog completely?

 

You said just now in this post "both cogs are on, aligned and timed and torqued"

Then you said "I'm stuck because the right hand cog inner and outer are not square - somehow got jammed at an angle"

You can't have both and according to your photo in post #13, I can clearly see that the serrated disc is not properly engaged into the cog and the cog is not properly mounted square onto the cam, so therefor not aligned and properly torqued.
You see where I'm coming from ?

When you say you may have to strip the entire front end to mount a new cog, I hope you don't mean the lower timing chain as well ? That should not have to be touched.
Starting from scratch on the top end is not a huge effort or at least it shouldn't be.

All I can say at this point is to watch the video.

And now I don't understand, what is "Katie cornered"

I think I'm done here, I have done the best I can, maybe someone else can help.

 

Forgive me @JeffR1 Im quite emotional as i think i have f up royally

Bit of background on myself - a few years back I got T Boned - bad, by a kid with state minimum insurance. Traumatic Brain Injury - took 18 months to recover and I have a LOT of cognative issues and it was life altering, lost several years of my memory too.

I tinker as part of my therapy, I am not a mechanic, but it helps.

I think I have buggered this up beyond repair and I am in dispair.

Here is where i am at:

Now for illustration purposes i have exagerated the kant / off kilter / "Katie Cornered" the part thats "in" is the width of the C Clip

Today I tried heat and hammers - as recommended by the JagVet on Youtube - he is just the other side of phoenix from me and has been giving me tips via text and facetime.

I did return everything to TDC and thats how I was able to get past my earlier issue of not enough slack... this is the state of play now.

Any help appreicate - am trying to get this old car on the road to use at my daughters wedding next year.

Peter

 

I've been through many numerous bicycle accidents over the years, and some have been nasty concussions with permanent memory loss, but nothing like yours, so I'll do my best.

First off, you haven't buggered anything up beyond repair, it's just the two top timing cogs we're dealing with.

Let me know when you've watched the video, but it all honesty, you can see where he was having difficulty and it was edited out, and he did have his Dad to help him.

I'll ask you a question taking things a bit a time, would you say that the right cog is wedged on there so badly that it can't be tapped off with a small hammer ? (with the bolts removed of course)