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Its been a while since I've done one of these but from memory doesn't the cog fit onto the end of the cam shaft and then when you tighten the centre plate the serrations fit into the cog and the bolts clamp it all together.
If so then if the cog isn't fitting correctly on the end of the cam then it sounds like you still don't have enough slack on the chain and if so it will never fit.
Just to check with the tensioner are you using it correctly? First you loosen the big nut, then you have to push in the plunger and turn the tensioner using the two holes in it, if it stuck then this could be the issue, I've found sometimes the pin doesnt' go in as far as it should and a gentle tap is required.
The final option which is not a good idea is to loosen the cam shaft on that side, take the cam bearing caps off and tip the back of the cam up which will cause the front to drop but if doing this and there isn't enough slack in the chain you might cause damage or overstress the chain or damage the front bearing on the cam.
As far as I'm aware there are only two top chains for these, one for the 2.4 and one for the 3.4 and 3.8. The 2.4 chain is much shorter so it won't be that and if the head has been skimmed a lot it would lower the cams making the chain effectively longer si its not going to be that.
I would have another look at the tensioner as I think you don't have enough slack and if so then if you can get a bit more loosen the cam sprocket centre, line it all up and use the bolts to pull it together.
I'll ask you a question taking things a bit a time, would you say that the right cog is wedged on there so badly that it can't be tapped off with a small hammer ? (with the bolts removed of course)
watched the video and watched jagvet engine rebuild episode 44…
in backed the 2 bolts out halfway and no dice…
when I can get back to the car later this week or next weekend, I’ll take out all bolts and start from 1st position again.
jagvet states that you can’t do one at a time, you have to do both outers, then inners or there’s not enough slack and that was what started me off wrong.
ill report back.
does your family complain you can’t remember things too? Its a source of strife.
Its been a while since I've done one of these but from memory doesn't the cog fit onto the end of the cam shaft and then when you tighten the centre plate the serrations fit into the cog and the bolts clamp it all together.
If so then if the cog isn't fitting correctly on the end of the cam then it sounds like you still don't have enough slack on the chain and if so it will never fit.
Just to check with the tensioner are you using it correctly? First you loosen the big nut, then you have to push in the plunger and turn the tensioner using the two holes in it, if it stuck then this could be the issue, I've found sometimes the pin doesnt' go in as far as it should and a gentle tap is required.
The final option which is not a good idea is to loosen the cam shaft on that side, take the cam bearing caps off and tip the back of the cam up which will cause the front to drop but if doing this and there isn't enough slack in the chain you might cause damage or overstress the chain or damage the front bearing on the cam.
As far as I'm aware there are only two top chains for these, one for the 2.4 and one for the 3.4 and 3.8. The 2.4 chain is much shorter so it won't be that and if the head has been skimmed a lot it would lower the cams making the chain effectively longer si its not going to be that.
I would have another look at the tensioner as I think you don't have enough slack and if so then if you can get a bit more loosen the cam sprocket centre, line it all up and use the bolts to pull it together.
I’ll check these too next time I’m in front of the car - thank you kindly
Found a better video, and I see that you already have the video (part 44), jump to the 23:45 minute mark and the guy says something very important.
He realizes his mistake and corrects himself there.
WHAT HE DOES AND SAYS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
It starts at the 15 minute mark where it's agonizing to watch, him doing it the wrong way.
He's trying to get the sprockets on the cam and getting the serrated plates lined up at the same time.
You have to disengage both serrated plates from the sprocket gears.
Then mount the sprocket gears on the cams and use the special tool to slacken the chain tensioner enough to get both sprockets on the cams.
Once the sprockets are mounted on both cams, take up the slack of the chain, but not so much you're going to pull the sprockets of the cams.
Now, align each serrated plate into each sprocket so that the bolt holes line up with the bolt holes in the cam.
If they won't line up, then rotating the serrated plate(s) 180 degrees will allow the bolt holes to line up (according to the manual)
Start the outer bolts on each sprocket gear and snug them up.
At this point you can finish snugging up the tensioner, but not dead tight _ go till it's tight, and back off until there is some slight slack in the longest part of the chain.
You now will have to turn the engine over to get to the other bolts.
Found a better video, and I see that you already have the video (part 44), jump to the 23:45 minute mark and the guy says something very important.
He realizes his mistake and corrects himself there.
WHAT HE DOES AND SAYS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
It starts at the 15 minute mark where it's agonizing to watch, him doing it the wrong way.
He's trying to get the sprockets on the cam and getting the serrated plates lined up at the same time.
You have to disengage both serrated plates from the sprocket gears.
Then mount the sprocket gears on the cams and use the special tool to slacken the chain tensioner enough to get both sprockets on the cams.
Once the sprockets are mounted on both cams, take up the slack of the chain, but not so much you're going to pull the sprockets of the cams.
Now, align each serrated plate into each sprocket so that the bolt holes line up with the bolt holes in the cam.
If they won't line up, then rotating the serrated plate(s) 180 degrees will allow the bolt holes to line up (according to the manual)
Start the outer bolts on each sprocket gear and snug them up.
At this point you can finish snugging up the tensioner, but not dead tight _ go till it's tight, and back off until there is some slight slack in the longest part of the chain.
You now will have to turn the engine over to get to the other bolts.
You may have to take the head off to enable enough room to get the sprocket gear and serrated plate out.
The gear and plate may have to be removed together.
At the moment, I can't think of any other way, unless someone else suggests something.
Undue the head bolts a bit at a time, so you can re-use the same head gasket.
Be prepared to also replace the sprocket as well, as the female serrations (teeth) may also be damaged to the point where a new plate may not fit properly.
At any rate, even though these are productions engines, Jaguar may have machined the plate and the gears teeth to fit properly to each other, so you may have no choice but to replace both.
Again, others may know better.
If i remove the intake cam too, remove or loosen the sparkerlators - i can crank the engine without bending valves... I could undo the timing chain link and crank the engine to remove the chain from that side only (secure with string to avoid losing the ends) ?
Ouch. You have my sympathy. I was able to remove the chain, put a nut on the front of the guide pin and unclip it from the plate leaving the pin in the front bracket. Extremely nerve wracking, but possible. I shoved some rags down below to catch anything that may fall.
If i remove the intake cam too, remove or loosen the sparkerlators - i can crank the engine without bending valves... I could undo the timing chain link and crank the engine to remove the chain from that side only (secure with string to avoid losing the ends) ?
Thoughts?
Once the intake cam is removed (both cams) you may turn the engine freely with out fear of bending the valves.
However, be sure the engine is on top dead centre before installing the cams with the tool.
Be careful when installing the cams, they like to move around a bit as you tighten down the bearing caps.
Take care when doing this.
First off, did you watch that section of video from post #24 starting at the 23:45 mark ?
The the snap rings that hold both serrated disks into the sprocket should be removed and the disks themselves should be disengaged from the sprocket gears before fitting the gears over the cam shafts.
(as it shows in the video)
Lets start from scratch, remove the sprocket you have on the left cam so the chain is very lose.
Now rotate the tensioner until the off-set gear is at the top of its travel _ don't worry about the chain of the sprocket gears moving around at this point.
Being at the top of the off-set will give you the most slack.
Move the off-set sprocket back and forth to make sure it's at the top of its travel.
Once there, allow the plunger to engage, and at this point you should be able to get both sprockets on the its respective cam.
Both sprockets have to be fitted at the same time as the guy figured out in the video, he mentions this quite clearly at the 23 minute and 45 second mark.
Once both gears are on the cams, engage the serrated discs (this can be done one at a time) to line up with the bolt holes on each cam.
If they can't be lined up to the bolt holes, then rotating the discs 180 degrees will enable the bolt holes to line up with the cam.
Once you have one disc lined up, you may thread one bolt in by hand as far as it will go, but don't snug it down until you get the other one done.
Once you have one bolt in place, the snap ring should engage fairly easily.
Just short of someone having you film what you're doing so that I/we can see where you are going wrong, I can't think of anything else to add.
I'm curious about how and where you got a new/used serrated disc, the one you have is not serviceable anymore ?
What was the method you used to get the old disc out ?
I'm curious about how and where you got a new/used serrated disc, the one you have is not serviceable anymore ?
What was the method you used to get the old disc out ?
I had 2 spare, now one obviously.
the one that came out is well and truly buggered. Bent Bent
I believe you....
I did scan through that other thread, but it offered no solution other than the given head gasket was too thick.
It then started talking about brakes, so I don't know what that was about ???
All I can suggest at this point is to use a screw driver to push the plunger in, then use a pair of needle nose pliers to rotate the off-set cog so it reaches it travel as far as it can in the direction of the green arrow.
Both cogs have to be off the cams to do this.
Then mount both cogs at the same time on both cams while rotating the cogs by hand so they can fit on the cams.
It can't be done one at a time.
fitted the intake side cogs, rotate, 2nd bolt, realign to TDC
insert the exhaust side camshaft, at an angle!
basically shoe horn the outer cog on to the camshaft. Then button down with the bearing caps (aligning as you go).
insert the 1st bolt, rotate the engine, install the 2nd bolt, install the c clips, rotate a few more times, check alignment, wire lock… snug the tensioner (turned about a ⅓ of a turn as there is now some slack).
