Wow! I thought you just changed the front cross member with the entire XJR and did not realize you had to modify that and the towers? Sounds like just added the typical chassis roll bar type tubes to triangulate the towers should fix it but you might need to go with narrower stainless tubes. I did that on my Primadonna Z car more for show but you might need to do that as the Jaguar is so tight the normal roll bar material might not fit? My Z car we used narrow stainless about 3/4" to triangulate the front towers. We welded those to stainless plates which bolted to the center firewall and towers; I did not need to add a strut bar out of stainless as the car has a full 9 point cage and the rails are boxed with heavy gauge steel.


Doug, while I had to do a lot of custom things like lower control arms, etc. to get the coil overs to work right and while reading your posts I started to think your path might have been easier but sounds like either way they required mods to get it to work right. Don't worry I had bugs on my car for the first 6 months but finally we over came them and now I can just beat the crap out of the Jaguar and it can take all of the abuse I throw at her....


below is a picture of one of my Z cars that is highly modified that might give you some ideas?

 

Thanks for the suggestions, Alan. One of the things that makes the towers difficult to stabilize on the Mark 2 is the isolation of the front suspension carrier via the 4 rubber mounts. I want to retain that feature to minimize vibration/noise, so that precludes tying the towers to the tub as in your Z. I looked at the Beacham specs for the cross member mods that Dave gave me (unfortunately we had already completed the modifications at that point), and indeed the engineering specs call for much heavier material than we used. The shop is reworking the cross member as we speak, so I'm pretty certain the heavier wall box section (5/16"!) will solve the problem. We're also increasing the height of the section to 2" up from 1 1/2" which will add additional strength.

I read in another thread where Dave has used an X Type ps rack that's narrower than the XJ - this probably gets the steering geometry very close to original spec. With the additional travel I have using 14" springs that might also help my situation.

Regarding front cross member mounts, does anyone know if these are available in polyurethane? Till next time.

 

Hi Doug, looks like your progressing hopefully with a fix to the problem.

You can get Poly front mounts from Wilkinson's

https://mcwilkinson.myshopify.com/pr...mk1-mk2-s-type

 

went solid on my front subframe mounts doug, but not on the road yet,
and made some polybush for top and bottom wishbones.
Dave.

 

Dave, would love to see more pics of your project as you progress.
Jon, thanks for the lead - I checked with Wilkinson's hoping they also offered the rear V mounts in poly but unfortunately they don't. Wondering if it makes sense to upgrade one end and not the other?

 

Good point, the Vee's do have more compressive load, and the sandwich mounts have more sheer/torsional load, so it may make sense, but I will ponder that one a little longer Doug

 

Doug,
I read through most of this thread over the past 2 days, but my brain is feeble at times..., so begging latitude.

I saw how you have neatly tucked the engine in the MK2, but do you have the engine running, and has the car gone through all the gears, etc.??

Reason I am asking is that I have a '56 XK140 sans engine/trans.
In addition, I have access to an 03 XKR 4.2 supercharged engine/6spd autotrans (complete with wiring harness, black boxes, etc.) all still packed into a car. I would love to transplant this engine/trans into the XK140, just to maintain a semblance of the Jaguar marque.

However, I have two serious questions:
1) Do you have the actual measurements, fore-aft, top-bottom, for the power plant? Also, it appears that the front end of the engine requires a wider space than the middle or rear of the engine -- which is opposite of the space available on the XK140 (narrower up by the radiator, but widening going backwards).
I can find all this info for American engines, but so far, nothing on the Jag V8. While I don't mind some cutting and welding to fatten the engine compartment, the modifications could prove to be too difficult or extensive for the 140. Do you have any sources for this, in order to do some better planning?

2) I am daunted by the complexity of the technology controlling the engine and trans, what with all the sensors and computers and feedback loops, etc. etc.

Have you figured this out yet, or is this on the list once all chassis/suspension problems are resolved?
Is this a simple matter of moving all pieces from the XKR donor car to the XK140, or are there gremlins lurking in the weeds?

My options are the pedestrian Ford Mustang 5L or 4.6L engine w/AT, or a GM power train. But, but, but, a SC Jag V8 would be sooooo much more attractive and appropriate.

Thanks for any information.

 

STASHA.
I would look at putting your xk140 body on to the x100 floor pan.

 

Daimler,
You make an excellent point, BUT, I wanna know if he's had it running yet.
Beacham definitely has done this conversion for an old XK150, so, it might/must be do-able -- meaning there is a "recipe" in someone's head, somewhere.

I wonder if Beacham is doing the chassis swap, as you mention.

In regards to transfering the shell to an X100 floorplan, the Ford 5L conversion is an option that is much easier to do -- but DEFINITELY not as classy.

 

Doug has had it running for a while, if you look at page 14 - 15 you will see that the latest issues are apparent from road testing.

Not sure how Doug's "recipe" for the Mk2 would translate to the XK, can you not get the engine out of the donor and offer it into the XK and see where you issues lie ?

You will need to transfer all the sensors from the donor to the XK, there may be some that are for display only, but throttle position, mass air flow, oxygen sensors, temp sensors etc. are all required for the ECU to control the engine.

Which ever option you choose, any restomod involving shoe horning a larger engine into an XK will involve a hell of a lot of fabrication, head scratching and ingenuity to pull off

 

stasha - if you make a 26" cube you're close to the V8 dimensions including all the accessories. I imagine the small block Ford and GM engines are basically similar. If you want any specific dimensions let me know and I'll be happy to measure as the lump is sitting on a table at the moment.

As Jon mentioned I carried over all the original electronics and harnesses which is a lot of weight but I wanted all of the modern functionality. The main computers include the engine, transmission and body processing ECUs, and all of them along with myriad sensors are needed to make the thing work. A major benefit of the domestic motors is all the aftermarket tuners making components - I'm not aware of anyone that's done this for the Jag V8.

We've had the beast up to speed with no codes so I can tell you everything will work. Unfortunately we're still sorting some suspension issues to get everything up to snuff. The 140 is a rare beast compared to the Mark 2 so I'd hesitate to jump into the restomod thing. My motivation was to have a modern every day driver, and I don't think a 140 will ever be that. And whether there are gremlins lurking in the weeds? I can't begin to count them. Hope this helps.

 

Doug,
Big thanks for the response and the details, and advice.
Thanks for the offer to take measurements.

I am still torn between making an XKR eng/tranny fit in, or taking the easy but guaranteed-to-work approach with another Ford 5L engine/trans with aftermarket black box (as you point out, aftermarket control boxes abound for this engine and the GM LS engine).
Having an XKR engine/trans at hand, with all wiring and boxes still in place, is very tempting, plus keeps with the Jaguar motif. BUt there is no key, although I should be able to back track the numbers to get one from a dealer (I was told that everything is tied to the chip in the key??).

The intention with the XK140 is also to make it into a frequent driver (hesitate to call it a daily driver until it gets all back together). We've already figured out that a restoration would be too great a distance to go, and would have zero returns on the time/money invested to get it restored -- even with me doing a majority of the work.

Your reference to a 26" cube as a rough estimate of required space is very useful, and should be enough.

HOWEVER, if you feel compulsive, I have copied some pics of the XK engine from one of the on-line manuals, and have drawn some dimensional arrows. If you want, you could make these measurements and post the the pic in this forum, in case others, like me, are thinking about trying out an XKR conversion.
I have also attached the PowerPOint sketch from whcih the jpg picture was made (I hope that it attaches), in case you might want to add other dimensions to the sketch that you feel might be critical to fitment of the engine into a compartment.

Thanks again.

 

Stasha,


Check out this link
https://www.grautogallery.com/vehicl...2-jaguar-xk120


Clearly a V8 will fit but this is a reproduction with a 2" x4" double run frame. This car used the Mustang front suspension along with a lot of other custom mods. Personally I think for a V8 swap an aluminum block LS would be better as it will be a lot lighter and provide more horsepower.


Another thought to keep the frame more stock but provide big power and reliability would be to possibly consider swapping the Jag 6 for a Nissan Skyline RB inline 6 turbo. The skyline RB will easily produce 450-600 HP with minor bolt on tweaks and they can put down 1200 HP if you want to go crazy. These 6 cylinder engines are super reliable and it would likely mean just some custom motor mounts?

 

I have to agree with Doug, the XK is rarer than the Mk2.

I can't believe that the costs to get a straight 6 engine with a rebuild would cost more than the work you will need to do for the restomod you are considering, and the end value will most likely be less, financially the restoration must be the better option, all/any bodywork will need doing regardless of which way you go with this.

Start a new thread for this, it is an interesting project and should have it's own thread, re-post your question and picture on a new thread, Doug can then reply there and start this ball rolling, which ever route you take I will be watching with interest.

Jon

 

Jon,
Sent you a PM. Wondering where would it be appropriate to start a new thread regarding this XK140 conversion?
I found Doug's thread completely by accident, and would not have thought to look under the MKII section regarding conversions.
Is there any section that gets general visibility such that others who are doing/have done conversions can pipe in with suggestions for our XK140 project?
Thanks.

 

stasha - here are your measurements (note this is a 4.0 not 4.2 - don't know if they're the same):

A 26.5"
B 27.5" (to highest point on intercooler housing
C 24" (alternator is vertically in line with edge of cam cover - compressor is in approx 2.5" from cam cover)
D 24" to block/bell housing interface
E 13"

My motor mounts are 20" on center - these can be modified to be as close as 16" on center by modifying the engine brackets.

The throttle body projects an additional 5" from the back of the block - 7" from the back of the heads.

I was trolling Hemmings for the next project and found this POS XK120 - nothing but a rusted frame and front clip. Looking at this pic I'm thinking Beacham might have done away with the torsion bars for clearance along with a lot of frame mods? Hope this helps and best of luck.

 

and you would need a big tunnel for the 4.2 gearbox as it drives off the top,
as just done one in a mk2 jaguar,

 

Hey Doug,

I am still in the beginning stages of the build as I just bought my project couple months ago. As I was wanting incorporate louvers on my MK2 as well would it be possible to provide me with the dimensions, spacing and the contact of the shop who stamped yours? That would be most helpful!! It is quite difficult to find a shop here in AZ. Thanks so much

 

The louver measures 12"L x 1/2"W x 1/4"H - spaced 3/4" apart - 4 1/4" overall with 4 louvers. Here's the outfit I used:
Melnick Metal Works
153 Church St
Bristol, CT 06010
860-583-7982
I gave them a picture of the Callum Mark 2 and they nailed it. I also gave them the sheet metal from my sunroof cutout which matched the fender profile perfectly, but the panels came back dead flat after stamping the louvers. Getting that curve back over the length of the louvers takes some patience. Also watch the heat when welding the panels in to minimize distortion.

We got the front suspension carrier back - here's a picture of the new tube cross section - I'm fairly certain this will eliminate any flex. I know the race boys struggled adding all that weight (probably an additional 20 lbs of steel), but I didn't want to take any chances. With the front end out we pulled the engine to address an exhaust leak, and while waiting for the front carrier I went ahead and replaced all of the timing gear which is a weakness in this Jag V8. The chain tensioners and guides are vulnerable to cracking and sure enough these were beginning to crack in critical areas. We'll start reassembling the beast this weekend - hopefully for the last time!

 

Blimey Doug, that should sort out any flex, hopefully you can get the Beast back on the road shortly.