George,

Thanks for your valuable input. I agree with you that I probably do not have a DCCV issue at this time. Based on what I've researched thus far, I believe it's a very slow 134a leak or perhaps a failing condenser....

The car is currently at Colors On Parade for the rear bumper repair caused by my wife backing into that invisible trailer hitch a couple of Saturdays ago. When the car comes back to me later this week, I'm calling the body shop that completely rebuilt the front end last August after it got plowed by the Geico driver in the pick-up truck. Part of those major repairs involved evacuating the HVAC system and replacing the condenser (my paperwork says that the original condenser was replaced by a new OEM one, but who really knows). Maybe I got a bad one or perhaps all of the HVAC hose connections were not secured as tightly as they need to be. Getting the body shop that did all the work involved is the logical first step, and it shouldn't cost me anything since I have a warranty from them covering 100% of the work they did on the car. This will be a good test to find out just how good this body shop warranty really is if the problem indeed turns out to be a bad condenser or a 134a leak somewhere....

I'll keep this thread updated as more information becomes available. Several forum members have reported A/C problems lately as the hot summer months approach, and I hope our car's diagnosis and eventual resolution can help someone else along the way....

 

My ac was blowing cool not cold, so I wanted to check it out. The LOW SIDE is the valve UNDER THE CAR and the HIGH SIDE is the valve UNDER THE HOOD!! Your best bet is to have someone recover the 134a with a machine that measures the correct pounds in the system. You could have too much oil in the system like I had (done by previous owner) or it could be over filled like mine (done by previous owner). You will not be able to verify either one of the above conditions with gauges only the machine will give you a clear answer. Do not waste your money with the Auto Zone stuff. I found a reputable shop that charged me $150.00 for everything where as my local Jaguar dealer wanted $250.00.

 

It makes sense that the high side is under the hood.
We have conflicting reports on both and their location.
Maybe Brutal can chime in on this one.

 

Rick got the ports locations right, but labeled them wrong...

The low side is in the wheel well, high side under the hood. A decent set of gauges. (Not the pos plastic one that comes with the fill cans) can show you the pressures, and help you with diagnosing the a/c system.

Something like this:




It will let you see high and low side pressures.. Determine if the compressor is working, and if there is a proper charge. I'd say over 50% of A/C issues are because people overcharge the system. They think that the solution to every A/C problem is to add refrigerant. The fact that these cans are on the shelf everywhere doesn't help the situation. BUT if you know what you're doing, you can diagnose the system partially yourself.

George

 

A/Cs are tricky. With the environmental and legal implications, you are better getting it serviced at a certified location....

 

The only thing you need a tech for is to evacuate / boil down / recharge a system. OR in the case where a SEALED system has to be evacuated to replace a faulty component. Basically the only thing it's illegal to do is intentionally release refrigerant into the air. And R134a, which all these S-Types are, doesn't contain Ozone Damaging Hydrocarbons anyway. But the EPA rule still applies that HFC-Free substitutes (of which r134a is) is still illegal to release. I think that was put in by the lobbyists to keep A/C shops in business.

The rest can be done yourself... Including properly charging a system after a leak was repaired.

George

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong; this is how most problems start. Using gauges will give you pressure, BUT air is pressure and gauges will not tell you how much oil is in the system. I have my class III/universal license and I'm telling you. GET IT HOOKED UP TO A ROBINAIR MACHINE to evacuate the system, pull a vacuum, and fill with CORRECT oil and refrigeration level. Gauges will not help you unless you know what is already in the system or it is completely empty. Oh, trust me when I say the low side is under the car.

 

For you tool hounds out there, I found this site that has a/c stuff:

http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1...ice_tools.html

It also other types of tools and diagnostic equipment. The rig George has in his picture will likely run you about $150 or more so you may want to add up the prices of what you need to buy vs just having a specialist do it for you.

Mike

 

I stand by what i said. Show me where anything I've said, including what you can do with the gauges is wrong... I'd much rather look at things myself and determine IF the system needs to be evacuated / recharged, if the compressor is working, If the electric fan is properly cooling the condenser etc... and THEN take it to someone with a machine.

I also in the next post specifically said that the only thing you cannot do your yourself was evacuate / boil down / recharge the system. That's when you need the machine, both to properly recover the refrigerant, AND to pull the vacuum to boil the moisture out of the system.

Oh and those gauges are 54 bucks on amazon, and can be used on any car, including to add 134a to the system if needed.

George

 

You are incorrect by thinking that pressure will tell you how the system is functioning. If you have air or extra oil in the system it will read correct pressure BUT cooling will not be correct, pressure includes air, and oil.

 

Did I claim that pressure ALONE will tell you how the system is functioning? BUT they WILL tell you alot. I didn't go into specifics because I wasn't writing a how to guide. If you don't know what the pressures mean, then hooking up gauges won't help you.

If you see equalized high side / low side pressures then you know the compressor isn't functioning. If you see high low side pressures you know the system is overcharged. If you see low low side pressures, you know the system is undercharged. If you start the car and the high side pressure starts to spike as the car warms up, you know the fans aren't properly cooling the condenser.

Personally if it was my car, and it was undercharged, I'd top it up to proper levels and see if that made it cold again before getting the system evacuated. If you add refrigerant and it works for a little while, then craps out again, you have a slow leak somewhere...

Overcharging is another mess. Because there is NO legal way to evacuate some of the refrigerant. Event though they sell an over the counter valve depressor tool.. Go figure. Yes your situation where the previous owner just went to town stuffing auto zone stuff in is no good. I wouldn't officially advise purging SOME of the charge because it's well illegal.. Although that may have solved your problem. Extra oil doesn't really HURT the system, it just takes up refrigerant volume, as it's not really compressable.

Air will almost never enter the system unless its forced in, or the system has a leak big enough to lose all the refrigerant, at which time it will show zero pressure (relative to atmospheric). A sealed system is under constant pressure, and will never pull outside air in, - you would need a vacuum condition in the system WITH an open leak to outside air.

George

 

Also...unless things have changed since I lived in Canada,the small cans of freon are not sold to the public (only approved shops) like they are here in the US. To be specific, I am talking Ontario,not sure about the other provinces.

 

As far as high/low nipples I have corrected the posted pictures. ALLDATA was abit vague when I first read through, I had to do more digging.

HIGH PREASURE under hood

LOW PREASURE wheel well

Sorry, I hope this clears up the original pictures.

 

Update:

This morning I took the S-Type to the body shop that performed the accident repairs last August and September. Described the inability of the car's HVAC system to sufficiently cool the cabin down in outside temperatures of 85 degrees or more (unfortunately it's only about 70 degrees today with more rain expected). Explained that my Jaguar forum research points to a faulty condenser (replaced as part of the accident repairs, and they claim I received a new OEM one) or possibly a small 134a leak due to the hoses and connections not being buttoned up tight enough after the system was evacuated prior to beginning repairs. So they'll hook up their diagnostic equipment and attempt to ascertain what's going on. Hope to hear back from them later today....

 

Update:

The body shop has been having intermittent problems with their HVAC diagnostic equipment all week. Spent two days attempting to diagnose our S-Type's issue and could not make a determination. They decided late yesterday to take the car to our local Jaguar dealership (the one that charges twice what other Jaguar dealerships in North Carolina do for parts and service). Confirmed to me that this decision is on their dime, not mine, so I'm okay with it. They couldn't get our car into the dealership until today. So I'll see what happens....

Pro: Since this issue is being handled under the body shop warranty I have from last year's repairs as a result of the Geico driver plowing into me, I don't pay for anything....

Con: A week or more required to finally diagnose and fix an A/C issue? C'mon guys, you dropped the ball on this one. Our car should have been shipped to the dealer as soon as you knew that your A/C diagnostic equipment was having problems....

 

Hi Jon,

Bummer. It sounds like your car will be in the shop over the weekend. Will they be providing you a rental in the interim? I would press for that if possible.

Happy Memorial Day

Mike

 

Mike,

Unless the A/C gets diagnosed and fixed today, then yes, our S-Type will be at the dealership through Memorial Day weekend. My wife's in her Lexus SUV, we don't need a rental. I'll give the body shop a break on this particular issue. A little goodwill, you know. I'm sure other issues potentially related to last year's accident will pop up eventually, and I want to keep the body shop's management on my side. I intend to ride their warranty like Secretariat....

 

Hi Jon,

Wife in her Lexus...that leads me to believe you are relegated to the lawnmower. Hopefully, she'll let you off for good behavior and let you drive your truck.

 

Mike,

Don't think I'll be driving anywhere for a few more days yet. Trying hard to finish up our master bathroom renovation project, and I've been painting walls for two days straight with probably two more days of trim paint and then final hardware installation to go. The guys from Glass Depot are here now to hang the new frameless glass shower door system on the new granite shower walls, so I get to take a break for about 90 minutes to clear out of their way. Probably a good thing since I'm fairly high on paint fumes....

 

Update:

Picked up the car late Friday afternoon. The body shop claimed they had their A/C diagnostic equipment repaired late Friday morning and were then able to diagnose our car. They say they found a hose connection bolt that was loose, so they tightened it, added the proper amount of 134a, and declared the A/C system resolved....

Obviously, they didn't test it thoroughly enough before calling me to say the car was ready for pick-up. Here's what I've discovered while driving the car this weekend:

When outside temperatures are in the 70s, the A/C system cools the cabin comfortably as it always has. My wife keeps the dual climate control system set on 68 degrees all summer long, just as she did last summer.

When outside temperatures are in the 80s, the A/C system struggles to cool the cabin and never really succeeds in getting the cabin temperature down to where we are accustomed to it being (again, the dual controls are set at 68 degrees).

When outside temperatures are in the 90s, forget it. You can run the A/C at maximum cool for as long as you want to, but it does not matter - the air it produces is barely cool enough to register on your bare skin, and if you stay in the car for more than 15 minutes, you'll be sweating like a pig.

So guys, does this sound like a condenser problem? What about a sensor problem? What about a fan problem? Brutal, have you encountered this description before from previous customers? I need a better understanding of the potential issues here before I call the body shop on Tuesday morning to tell them that we are right back where we started....