Don't get bogged down over there!

 

Hey Norri;

If squelchy, I will try the big Ford FWD Tractor - filled with Heavymix liquid and air to 20lb, each fitted wheel weighs well over a ton, but its traction is relentless!

If really liquid, I will just yearn for my old prop-rider "Jaggered" which was a racing boat built around a bored and blown 6 litre Jag V12 HE, running custom built pocketed pistons, partial nitro, 18-20lbs boost, and even with water injected tuned pipes, was good for 2 to 3ft flames from each bank's megaphone under full throttle. Recorded at 115mph on the Hawkesbury in October 1983.

If so bad I start sinking ... I will shout for help. Please don't desert me ...
.

 

We know a song about that don't we?

 

LOL ... LOL ... LOL


Cars, even Jaguars, and especially diesels should always be such fun. Thanks Norri, for restoring the world to a fair dinkum perspective ... (that'll fox him) ...

We live somewhat close by one of the Oz lead actors from the original movie - and he still dines out on the "real time" mayhem that surrounded their shooting in and beyond Alice Springs.

We are still recovering from Paul Hogan as the Crocodile Hunter, but after Priscilla, the Outback will never be the same.
.

 

Having owned a 2005 2.7 TDV6 for 6 months now, I can only say that I love it! Missing it at the moment as on a 6 week hol in Australia, driving round in a Honda Jazz just doesn't cut the mustard. No real issues with the Jag other than the "lurch" syndrome which I will have cured on my return to the UK, and an oh so small turbo inter cooler hose leak which is almost insignificant. It's as comfortable as driving a bed, and better than 2.2 and 2.7 TD Mercs that I have had previously, super responsive yet great on a run with a typical 45 mpg if I am careful, though that's not often doesn't even sound like a diesel......definitely recommended!

 

Ah, it's good to be back. As you predicted Norri, I have waded the length and breadth of Jaguar UK Forum, and also many other car forums - LR Disco, Peugeot etc. Learned heaps about Jaguar's unique build of this torquey 2.7TTD engine and the several generations of upgrades.

Fuel quality concerns pre 2006 meant that none were imported into Australia until then - thus we benefit from upgraded, optimized spray pattern piezo ceramic stack injectors, fully upgraded turbos and redesigned actuators. For the final S-Type MY2008, the multi pulse injectors were again upgraded - now to even greater timed pulses per burn cycle, with each injection stream being as fine as a human hair. All was optimized for the Premium Diesel fuel now more widely available.

I am checking out a nasty rumour that, without your MOT and EU breathing down our neck, even the last Aussie S-Type Diesels were EGR and/or DPF free.
Nigel; sorry to have been away during your post. Touring Oz in a Honda must seem like a 6 month holiday on Dartmoor. LOL
I note your recommendation Nigel, and wish to reassure Norri that despite all the well founded and oft repeated stories of these diesels roaring into uncontrollable destruction as they feed on fuel diluted sump oil, no-one but NO-ONE could produce evidence of a real life instance. It appears that provided engine oil is changed as recommended and never overfilled, this not quite urban myth serves to depress values to the point where real smart luxury is quite affordable.

So keep it quiet please, because I don't take delivery until next week ...
.

 

Er, not true. Several on the UK forum and more on the net have had total engine destruction. Very upset posts from people unable to comprehend how such a thing can happen.

 

Yes, I hear you - and I have spent quite some time investigating them - all of them. So I guess it's "show and tell" time ... me first, although I suspect this will end in agreeing to disagree.

First, the UK Forum with all its sad cases. Summed up in the thread "Engine blowups: how common?" there are 12 posts, only 1 claiming a friend who told him that he had his Jag diesel engine replaced (under warranty), only 1 for whom it was a personal experience - but in a Citroen C6 which is at best a poor antecedent of the Jag engine and which had earlier being overfilled with engine oil. Several other posts had heard about, been warned about, or knew of a person whose third aunt's second cousin by marriage .....

More than half of the dozen posts spoke to its rarity, challenged any instance in any Jaguar, and finally under a snappy rebuff from BuckMR2, spluttered to a close. One poster quoted Wikipaedia. Not so bright when the only citations were for WARNINGS concerning marine engines in hazardous locations and a single instance of a runaway stationary diesel when it started feeding not on its own sump but the surrounding volatiles at a chemical plant.

Yes, I have trolled across the 'net and there's plenty more in the same vein. As I said weeks ago, I am not into a contest, just the facts. All the evidence I have is that Jaguar have built and continue to develop a cracker of an engine with potential (in the words of BuckMR2) "that STR owners often dream of". There is also plenty of evidence we will see many, many more.

You say uncontrollable runaway in this engine is not rare. I agree. It is VERY RARE - oft repeated but where is the evidence?

Your turn ...

 

Sounds similar to the non-stop arguments over here about the 'evils' of E10 fuel. Everybody has heard something about it, nobody has any relevant first handed experience.

 

Well, I have read people who posted that THEIR S-Type 2.7D (diesel) engine was terminally damaged without warning and it was due to DPF regen failing.

The threads are now hard to find at least on the UK forum since their disastrous "upgrade" lost all the thread links. You can get a taste for the kinds of faults since then with terminally Ill engine and Seized engine - 2.7 Diesel and http://www.jaguarforum.co.uk/f27/200...ied-55465.html and http://www.jaguarforum.co.uk/f27/hel...tem-38269.html and http://www.jaguarforum.co.uk/f27/s-t...-Type+Diesel+Q

Also http://www.jaguarforum.co.uk/f19/xj-...ine-35796.html and http://www.jaguar-world.com/features...e-diesel-issue and http://www.justanswer.com/uk-car/36b...automatic.html

I've read more but with a broken site it's a problem. These were NOT n'th hand tales.

 

Hear you again JagV8;

Yes I had read through all but three of your links. I had even PMd 2x successfully to ask for followup experiences and/or evidence, and a 3rd who has still not responded. Two of your links were new to me and I thank you for that.

Two observations are quite striking ... (1) despite lament that a lot more (older?) has been lost, much of what you offer is old news also and the majority reported in the early pre-upgrade of the engine - this despite the fact that the big sales push of this V6 diesel came with 2006 ... (2) the fact is, that with more and more now on the roads, we are seeing less and less reported problems.

Some of the examples you cite tell us more about attitudes to maintenance rather than prove any inherent disaster in the Jaguar engine. The seized engine with oil bleeding all over the tow truck was told by an owner who freely admitted driving around for weeks prior with the oil warning light (?) flashing on and off intermittently.

As I predicted, and Mikey has summed up, I think we agree to disagree ...

 

You said there weren't any. Well, there have been more on the UK site but its older links don't work so I can't find them.

Another jaguar xf - mechanical failure | Technical matters | Back Room Forum | Honest John
and a 2006 https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ems-dpf-56564/

You won't find many after 2006 as the cars final production year was 2007. S-Type numbers dropped steadily every year from 2004. The diesel didn't sell huge numbers as there's a recall (for DPF excessive heat) affecting all 2005-end of sale and it's only 8028 cars total for both S-Type & XJ 2.7D.

Here's a funny one for the XF diesel (essentially the same engine) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ST-enough.html

 

Good post JagV8, and I do appreciate your links. Again I was familiar with 2 threads, but I did so enjoy the twister in your final link.

Jaguar's "No Comment" to the story did not exactly cover them in glory, did it?

One minor correction. My S-Type, with VIN some 4-500 short of N80000 is dated Dec 2007, and was certainly followed by production through a large part of 2008 - right up to the final and well known VIN. Even the model itself was named by Jaguar from Jan 2007 production as their MY2008. (Yes, I had to check it too).

Harking back to the original topic that generated this thread I want to thank everyone who contributed to my knowledge and better understanding. Thanks to Jim and Norri for a needed push. From being a long time user of diesel trucks, 4WDs and tractors - and after an exhilarating 1500km journey in our daughter's new VW Diesel Tiguan - I was ill prepared when presented with the chance to purchase this 2.7TTD S-Type.

Now better informed, I hope that with careful and ongoing DIY maintenance, we minimize some of the risks and enjoy all the benefits. Last and special thanks to JagV8 ... It is because I have respected your advice and help elsewhere that I can be so gracious when you slip.

(Quick... duck for cover)

No-one mention cricket ... There is a nasty rumour about in Australia that your team (?) has been invited to stay on awhile ... our girls need the practice!

(Now you have torn it - they'll resurrect Freddy and there will be hell to pay!)

I will dust off camera and post some pics of our beautiful new monster - before she blows up (I really should not have said that).

Best wishes,
Ken

 

For the doubters, more dead engines:
Brief knocking sounds have led to dead S-Type??!!
DPF Removal? - Page 2

 

Yes I have a 2.7 V6 Diesel S Type. I am an engineer and I am 69. Mine is a 2006 with 160,000 Miles on the clock. No typo - one hundred and sixty thousand miles. Initially I was was worried. After probing into some of the instances of engines / end users which had serious engine problems, it was pretty clear to me that they bought these second, third or fourth hand, with no documented history and some with no experience what so ever and God only knows about the elements of non conformance and abuse the car had been through before they bought it cheap of course. My car has 166k to be exact. I was serviced regularly and using Oil which is known to be long lasting (I use the MTU (mercedes marine engines) Oil guideline to distinguish the oil that really lasts 5000 miles and those that break down much before. You will notice from this guideline that be it shell, bp, castrol etc offer same speck oil 5/40 which is not acceptable if you are after long term reliability and dependability - ie as little wear as possible especially on cold starts. Besides this, at 100K miles I had all the belts replaced including the water pump and the tensioners etc.... The water pump blades and bearings were still like new but that was because the water was replaced with the appropriate type every 2 years. Also the reason why the engine never built up any corrosion or calcium and hence the temperature continued to be always the same for the past 16 years. These engines are bullet proof if you take good care of them. And this is true for any performance car be it a Mercedes (I have a 190 1985) of a BMW or an Alfa. TheJag has its original injectors too. I heard a hissing sound recently - exactly the same as when an alternator belt is slipping. I had it checked and to my surprice it was not a belt. It was an infinitly tiny leak from the injectors. The man said - Joe lets remove the injectors for the first time - they were still perfectly ok - it was the washers that were hissing. We replaced them and voila. Another instance at around 90 K miles was a rather excessive fuel consumption. We had this checked using the computer - it was an oxygen sensor on the right side of the calalyser - we replaced the other side too. I cannot mention any other instances since I had none. These engines are bullet proof. They must really be abused and for long period for the inevitable to happen. It is of no use trying to blame the engine. Moreover all owners of BMW, Mercedes and Alfa (cars that I own) end up falling into the same narrative of blaming the engine rather than blame themselves for one reason or another. What attracted me to this S Type is the timeless look of the design and its pulling power especially from very low revs - it automatic gearbox is so well matched - and talking of the hear box, it still runs like new, again probably because the car had its oil and filter replaced every approximately 40 to 50K miles.
I know this is to late for you but I though of writing anyway for anyone that is considering to buy an S 2.7Diesel. Just make sure that the car has a documented history and that it was serviced as it should be which is the advice for buying any car. From experience I can say that Any car Any make (with a few exceptions) is a good car - but a car can only be as good as the service which comes with it when you buy it.
No one should buy a 16 year old car or older without a proven documented record of its service history and without checking for rust issues.
It is of no use to even read about the issues of many cars. Most of these fail due to lack of servicing and preventive maintenance ON time.