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Gabriel S-type R build thread

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  #1  
Old 10-07-2009, 01:22 PM
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Default Gabriel S-type R build thread

Well decide to post my stock dyno.
Future plans
Performance
1. I plan on upgrading the intake system and plan on opening up the supercharger outlet wings(I think they are to small) and upgrading the pulley. After these mods I will post my dyno results. I plan for this to be done by the end of November.
2. I plan on garaging it during winter so I plan on getting some exhaust work done and porting the supercharger plus a rebuild since its out. Plus the Larger crank pulley. I already purchased a Nitrous Kit Dry kit w 100 shot, but it is not hooked up, it will be after I drive up to Eurotoys to get it tuned in the Spring. I dont want to send my ECU I want them to actually tune MY car. This should be done by the end of March.
3. Pending.... I know a guy that works on GM and Ford performance cars, he look at the rear end and said it may possibly the 8.8 Ford, if so he will put a LSD from a Ford, I know a lot of guys would love this. I know SVC in California put something different on there S-type R but I cant find the article anymore.
Cosmetic
1. Lowering Springs. Spacers with extended wheel studs and Pro Racer Neo lugz. Tint windows and something for the hood dont know yet but I would really like some of the heat taken out of the engine. 20" staggered rims.
I will keep this upgraded so I can track my progress and maybe I can help someone.
 
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2009, 01:28 PM
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Rerouted Intake - completed September 26.
The reason I moved it to the side is that the supercharger was sending the heat up and the intake was soaking up the heat. I know that it is still in a warm spot but it is not as hot as above the supercharger plus it lets the supercharger heat out faster. I plan on mounting the filter in wheel well and upgrading the piping from 2.75 to 3.0. The piping was coated to reduce heat. Next are the wings on top of the supercharger to be opened up more.

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Input would be appreciated.
 

Last edited by super_jag; 10-07-2009 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:43 PM
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NOS bottle mounted and painted
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:53 PM
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Ooooo I would be extremely careful with the spray. The pistons in the supercharged 4.2 are VERY brittle. One detonation and your going to be picking up pieces of the motor all over the road. The pistons won't just crack, they'll shatter. I would call Eurotoys and ask them about it, but I would advise very strongly against it.
 
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:18 PM
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Nitrous Kit offered by Paramount
http://www.paramount-performance.com..._Upgrades.html

Nos: Nitros Oxide Injection
Price: Ł1,000.00 + VAT
Click 'Enquire' or call us direct on +44 (0)1753 533633

With numerous kits and services available for Jaguar models Nos is one sure way to increase your power.

Nitrous oxide has a higher percentage of oxygen than normal air, therefore when injected into an engine combustion pressures, and hence torque, can be very considerably increased.

Despite its reputation as engine "wrecking" when fitted, installed and used correctly Nitrous Oxide can in fact give a very significant reliable and usable power increase.

Prices start from just Ł1000 + vat

Please call the team for further information
 
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:13 PM
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http://www.jaguarxp.com/jagxp/Jaguar...rous%20kit.htm


Notice down at the bottom where it says:
" *** This kit is not recommended for supercharged vehicles "

Granted this is not a very reputable tuning company, but I have spoken with many Jaguar techs before and all have said that it is a very bad idea. I'm not trying to ruin your plans at all, I'm glad someone actually has the cojones to do something original on our cars. I just don't want to see you on here in a couple months looking for a new engine.

Also depending on when your thinking about spraying it; have you checked into the max input torque that the ZF 6HP26 will handle. If memory serves correctly its rated at 600 newton metres (443 ft·lbf). So spraying it when your already pushing the tranny pretty close to its max rating may also be bad. I'm not necessarily saying don't do it, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. This is how my older brothers would make me think things through carefully so I didn't make bad decisions and it usually works.

All of your other plans for the car sound good though. Did you do a baseline dyno before the intake? When I was experimenting with intake on my car I noticed that almost all of them cost my car a lot of torque.

I really want to see how the rest of your mods comes out! The tune and the pulley kit should give you the best gains. Then the LSD will help you get it to the ground. For the LSD your probably going to have to change the entire carrier to a Cobra unit. If I remember correctly, the Jaguar/Lincoln LS unit is slightly smaller and the Cobra posi won't fit. It is an 8.8

But good luck and let me know if you find out anything else about the N2O.. Eric
 
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:58 PM
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Had no idea the limit on the ZF tranny was that low, thanks for that I will have to add that to my upgrades, if there is any. I will continue to think about the Nitrous, it is the last thing to be hooked up. I just picked it up at a very good price. The dyno I posted was the base dyno. I have not dynoed it after the intake install.
 
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Old 10-07-2009, 05:34 PM
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Take a look at these headers. They are for the Lincoln LS/Ford Thunderbird but should fit the S Type Jag as well. I still have not found out if they will or not?

http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/p...oducts_id=1723
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:55 PM
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Hmm well the Jaguar uses the AJ34 engine which is 4.2l and the Lincoln LS and T-Bird use the AJ30 and the AJ35 which is 3.9l Both the 34 and 35 have the same bore but different strokes. The block, crankshaft, pistons, and connecting rods are all unique to the AJ35. But Jaguars AJ34 shares a lot of other parts with the Ford motor. If the heads are one of those parts you may be in business.

Although you could have problems with the location of the power steering setup and other parts on the Jag that might not let them go on. There is not much space down there at all, climb under and take a look some time. I would say the chances of those headers bolting on with no clearance issues would be very slim, but worth a try if they take returns..
 
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:45 AM
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@super_jag

Good stuff. My first comments on the air intake is that you might have advantage in the (imho) better curved intake on the TB, but you might lose that again as you have introduced an extra 90 degree bend, and the bend after the air intake is a bit sharper.

IMHO the heat from the SC itself doesn't have a big effect, as once you floor the car, the air will flow at such a high speed, it will not have enough time to pick up the heat.

Maybe if you create more room over the TB to have a nice curved intake bend going from 2.75 to 3" or something, and then again over the SC with a smooth bend to the side fender with the cone filter, might be the best flowing.

Watch out by altering the airflow so close to the MAF sensor, it could give you different readings than actual airflow.

I can definitely advice some diagnostic tools, as then you can read some sensors on the car, for instance the intake pressure. This is a nice one to use to measure if you have optimized the air flow, at least that is always how I tried to measure it when altering the intake.

Your base line isn’t bad, though I would have expected more just above the 330 rwhp, at least make sure that you try to keep all conditions as comparable as possible, ie tire pressure outside temp, intercooler temp etc etc.


@White_str
Do you already have any dynos?
 
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:49 AM
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Thanks for pushing the limits. Its nice to see some fresh ideas. Keep the updates coming.
 
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:06 AM
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You could do an approx dyno yourself by reading air flow (MAF) and pressure (MAP). There are articles if you google for them.

You do have to be worried as to whether the MAF could misread, although it only matters when OL (open loop). In CL (closed loop), the fuel trims will move to suit the actual air.

Bear in mind that if the SC is boosting then you will get heat. If it's boosting more than the stock setup you'll get extra heat. (It's just physics.)

My guess is you risk getting codes. Initially you'd think who cares but if the car goes into limp home mode you'll care! So, you probably need a remap at some stage.

It's possible but not especially easy to fool the PCM. Such as feeding it fake O2 values and removing the cats.

You can do serious damage with anything you do but engines etc aren't free

You may want to ask avos who did his changes and whether he's had a remap. And other details.
 
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:57 AM
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WhiteSTR:
Good point but under the hood the two cars are very close to identical. The P/S pump is the same. Look at these pictures of the Lincoln LS and the Jag STR. Ton's of identical parts. The main differences are the electronics. The hard parts such as where the engine mounts are located are the same. Notice the ABS tubing, the brake M/C.

I have a 2003 LS and a 2005 STR and have been under and around both of them in detail. It is shocking how different the cars are when underneath they are twins!!
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Attached Thumbnails Gabriel S-type R build thread-lincoln-ls-engine-bay.jpg   Gabriel S-type R build thread-2003-s-type-r-engine-bay.jpg  
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:44 AM
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How similar are the suspensions (wishbones etc)?

I've got CATS connectors & wires where you have black plastic covers - should I also have covers?
 
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:12 AM
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Yeah you should have covers on top of the CATS wires. Someone probably removed them.
 
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by avos
@super_jag

@White_str
Do you already have any dynos?
Actually the Jag is the only car I've owned that I've never dyno'd. I guess I always just figured it would probably be a disappointment. Maybe I will, now that it seems to be a trend on here. Just to have a number for comparison.
 
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:13 PM
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Now that you rerouted the intake tube, and if you're going to keep it there, you could have the supercharger outlet/chargecooler inlets made to flow much better, now that there's no intake tube squished in there.

3" piping seems small and 2.75" is waaay too small. What's the inner diameter of the throttle body, like 3.1"? That's what it is on my 4.0 XJR. You should go for 3.5" minimum piping. I'd bet you lost quite a bit of power with the 2.75".
 
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:21 PM
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The strut tower caps were dropped by Ford for 2003 and up and Jaguar for 2003 and up. I found a set on EBay and added them to both my wife’s 2003 LS and my 2005 STR. I think it just adds a more finished look. Kind of surprised that they were dropped?

The suspensions all share the same mounting points but there are several variations among the Lincoln and several more variations among the Jaguars. Both cars got a major suspension update for 2003 and up. It looks like Jaguar also did some minor changes for 2005 and up. So the first generation (2000-2002 LS and 1999-2002 S Type) have many more identical parts than the later 2003 and up models. But things will swap. Several guys have added the complete STR brake package to the Lincoln along with the proper S Type R staggered wheels.
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveM
Now that you rerouted the intake tube, and if you're going to keep it there, you could have the supercharger outlet/chargecooler inlets made to flow much better, now that there's no intake tube squished in there.

3" piping seems small and 2.75" is waaay too small. What's the inner diameter of the throttle body, like 3.1"? That's what it is on my 4.0 XJR. You should go for 3.5" minimum piping. I'd bet you lost quite a bit of power with the 2.75".
That is one of the main reasons I rerouted the intake is to help with the airflow. I planned on upgrading to 3.0" piping, I doubt that a 3.5 piping will fit in there. I get a better throttle response with the new intake but have not dynoed it, its about $40 to dyno, and don"t think a rerouted intake would help me prove anything. Next dyno is after the supercharger oulet is bigger. I will keep you updated.
Thanks for all your input.
 
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tbird6
Take a look at these headers. They are for the Lincoln LS/Ford Thunderbird but should fit the S Type Jag as well. I still have not found out if they will or not?

http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/p...oducts_id=1723
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Thank I read in a previous post of yours about these. I will be having my headers done though locally by Vettes and Performance http://www.vettesandperformance.com/exhaustgallery.htm
 


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