Does anyone know where you can get the Motorcraft coils for a 2005 S-Type 3.0 and any cross reference part number. ( C2S42673 is the Jag coil number). My #3 (and it may just have engine degreaser or some film/deposit on it- that can easily be cleaned.) is acting up after I over-washed the engine and since I am moving this month, I do not have the time to stop by a Jag mechanic to have the manifold off and be without a car or waste 2 days and taxi fares and rental car issues to get the job done by someone way across the city.
The dealership wanted to charge me $700 alone to replace the plugs and if one included the coils then am looking at a $1500-1800 dollar job and that is about as crazy as giving my money to the local drunk who has disappeared for the last 5 years and can't be found.

I am going to replace mine and hear about OEM and I know they have lasted, but coils are coils and except for cheaper made Asian models, why would not a Standard or BECK/ARNLEY or even the one with a 3 year warranty at Napa- the Echlin work?

I just have had a belly full of the incompetence, lack of quality control, overpricing and arrogance of the Jag dealership locally and the idea that the coils for $143 dollars, when they are just wound copper (larger and small wire) with a lamented iron core and an open magnetic circuit is that much better than others that make other quality components around the globe for many autos- lack a certain sense of logic of how manufactures get their parts made, spec and bid out.

Jagbits seem to have a good price and I would bet dollar to dollar that the Motorcraft and Jag coils are made by Standard.

I had ordered denso from Rock Auto, but they sent me 2 prong ones even though they said it fit the 2005 S-type which require the 4 prong and there was no photo or other info to verify.

If I sound frustrated with all of this- then that would be highly in context.

I have heard that if you have an intermittent problem with one coil that it will cause false reads on other coils and potentially damage (?) other coils, although I am not sure why that would happen- Any truth to that? Although I do get the p0300 and an occasional p0420 (all pending) and no CEL and nothing else, but have had at one point or the other, when trying to increase the engine load in high heat, show codes on all coils at some point (which is not valid or my car would be running very rough and without power, when I just have a slight roughness at idle.


Tom in Dallas
2005 Jag S-Type 3.0 75k

 

Tom, here is an old discussion on the #3 COP that you were (are) inquiring on. You can start at the OP or jump somewhere to about post #35 and read on through the rest of the thread.


https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...s-26051/page2/


Now I can confirm 2 things on the subject of removing #3 and #5 COP and spark plugs without removing plenum. You cannot remove them without damaging them AND there is no way in hell you will get the new COPs back in without damaging them.


Here's where I see it. A few years ago I was able to remove the plenum within 15 minutes without damaging the brake booster or any other vacuum lines or wiring harnesses. You can remove the plenum bolts and a couple of others things to raise the plenum up enough to access #3 and #5 COPs and sparkies. You can DIY this fairly easily on a day off which you don't have time for.


If YOUR vehicle was mine. I would plan on replacing:
6- Plenum seals (gaskets, for now on referred to as seals)
6- Lower intake seals
6- Iridium sparkies
#3 and #5 COP's
* I would go with these: Ignition Coil - MotorcarsLtd.com
I would also plan on replacing the valve cover and spark plug seals as well, at least on you passenger side. I would bet a cheap beer that they are leaking.


I believe that I had read that you have replaced the IMTs already.


With that being said, you now have a few choices. Get ahold of Bob, or possibly Motorcars may be near you or find a day get all the parts listed above and get to it saving yourself a ton of ching on labor!

 

As always Rick, you are a man of good and common sense.

Here is my question. I think that the problem is purely the #3 coil (clearly i could be wrong, but that has to be the main suspect). It does appear that I can remove that without having to deal with the manifold (not talking about removing the plug). I understand with some tender care that it is possible-. I have not even tried, you have experience- how possible is that?

Bob would be great but he is 75 miles away.

Below is a quote for having a nearby garage do the work- do this seem reasonable?
ESTIMATE FOR SERVICES Cust ID: 0 Estimate Date : 7/8/2014

2005 Jaguar - S-Type - 3L, V6 (181CI)
Part Description / Number Qty Sale Extended Labor Description Hours Extended
SPARK PLUGS - Remove & Replace - V6
- [Includes: R&I Upper Intake Manifold.]
3.00 405.00
Hazardous Materials 20.00
Direct Ignition Coil #3
C2S 42673 1.00 93.94 93.94
Spark Plug
9606 6.00 9.60 57.60
Shop Supplies 15.15

Ideally what I would want to do right now is replace the coil on 3 (even though it may just need cleaning) and then see where I am, so gentlemen I come back to the question- can I get the coil out and then back in)???

I understand the connection to the prong can be a b...., but I am computer eng- so doing strange electrical changes in small environments is a little easier for me.

As always- appreciate your help.

Tom in Dallas

 

Wow Rick, I remember that ancient thread fondly for several reasons. First, it convinced me to go ahead and change my IMT O-rings (still very glad I did) after you clued us in on the "short route method". Second, Brutal shared a great deal of valuable information with us in that thread, something he rarely does now (probably because he just doesn't have the time). And third, what an absolute moron that "danielsatur" guy was!

 

Jon: Hare you played around with the coils. Any chance I can get 3 off and back on? Is the 3 hour rate I am being quoted a reasonable charge?

Tom in Dallas

 

The new-and-improved IMT O-rings flat-out fixed my misfire issues more than four years ago. Not a peep since I changed them. I have not had to replace any coils. My S-Type currently has about 83,400 miles on the clock and continues to run like a top (knocking hard on wood as I type this)....

I agree with Rick. If you don't remove the intake manifold first, it would be next to impossible to get the passenger-side coils and plugs out without damaging them. I would not risk it. A few techs have said they can do it. I would certainly be interested in watching them try (but not on MY car)....

 

3 hour rate isn't bad.


Again Tom, as Jon and I have talked about along time ago (I even believe that we were on the phone for quite awhile) while I worked #3 coil to try to get it out just for my fun. IIRC I spent well over 2 hours trying to remove that COP with the plenum on motor. I was able to get the hold down bolt out no problem, but again I was not able to remove the #3 COP entirely, as a matter of fact all I could do is raise it up enough for no reason.


I still stand by my guns and say the plenum must be raised or come off completely.


I see your reasoning for just replacing the #3 COP but as long as you (or a "pro") has the plenum off to remove the #3 () you might as well toss in the #5. Oh and again you will thank me for telling you to have the valve cover and spark plug well seals on hand.

 

If one of the techs would tape themselves removing and replacing the #3 COP WHILE the plenum is still in place, I will make them a hell of a deal. Oh must be the US passenger side model year 2003 or newer.


Cannot be done!!! Yes that is a challenge boys! Bring on the video.......

 

For the amount of work involved and the age of your car. I would change all 6 coils while you are in there.

Have you checked EBay for a set of coils? A lot of Lincoln LS guys are using them.

So far I am at 104K miles on my 2005 STR with all the original coils. I just changed the plugs about 10K miles ago.
.
.
.

 

Thanks Rick. You are pretty handy and practical with these things and if you could not do it, then my assumption is that it would be nearly impossible, unless there is a hidden secret. So ifsomeone as a video or can tell us what you did not find, then I will stick by doing it the more proper way.
I think the $400- 3 hour labor charge is probably fair enough and I would replace coil 5 at the time regardless of condition, along with 3. The shop will not let me buy my own coils -even from Jagbits, so I will just replace those 2 and be done with it. If the others go out, I can get to those.

They have the jag software and can do a correct read. The seals you speak of ave been replaced by Jag on 2 occasions when they were fixing an oil leak from a burning smell I had. Just noticed it was twice, but knowing the dealership, it had to be taking advantage of the after market warranty company.

Anything else other than a bad cat, which would be causing random misfires that occurred only after over-washing the engine. Any other sensor or connection, I could have messed up reasonably? I am still not beyond thinking it just got something on it - since after the load is made it drives fine all the way up to 90. It s just overloading all at once, such as stomping into passing gear that throws is tout of whack.

Thanks again

Tom

 

I would do this normally, but the shop I am taking to will not even use the same number plug from Jagbits Alas and alack?


Tom in dallas

 

The guy doing my work wants to use Bosch iridium plugs. Does it really makes any difference for an average driver vs the Jag NKG plugs or some other plug?

Tom in Dallas

 

Denso and NGK have long been recognized as the industry leaders in iridium plugs. I have had great experiences with both Denso and NGK plugs over the past three decades or so. Those are the only two brands I would be willing to use in these Jaguars, especially if I have to go to the trouble and expense of removing the plenum to change them....

 

What is the real difference? I mean the technology about plugs is simple enough. I was just surprised that he was using Bosch and not the actual Jag part. To me, I think they should be the same for the average driver- what have you noticed or known that makes you want to stick to Denso and NKG?
To me they are all they same, but I am the novice.

Tom in Dallas

 

There are a number of experienced techs and DIYers who believe that the quality control standards of Denso and NGK remain as high as ever while the quality control standards of Bosch have slipped somewhat as their ownership has changed hands. I have read this and heard this from multiple sources during the past ten years or so but I have no empirical evidence to offer you. What I can say is that of all the automotive brands out there that many of us have utilized for decades, I hear Fram and Bosch getting bashed the most whenever the subject of "they don't build them like they used to" comes up....

Your mileage may vary....

 

I hear what you say.

Thanks

Tom

 

On a side note, my wife selected a Bosch convection oven back in 2004 when we upgraded our kitchen. I wasn't happy about the $1,600 cost back then (that's probably a bargain today), but it has been a good appliance and it certainly gets a lot of use....

Also, I put a Bosch battery in my wife's 2006 XK8 in September 2012 when her factory battery began to die. Bought it on sale at Pep Boys and used one of their coupons to bring the cost down to about $85 with core trade-in. No complaints....

However, in neither case did I have to go to the time, trouble, and expense to remove a plenum and a bunch of gaskets to install those two Bosch products. And that is why I would insist on only the best spark plugs in these 3.0 engines. You only want to have to go in there once....

 

Right on Jon! This or that is why I went in on Joyces Jag at what 43,000 miles and replaced the sparkies when the passenger valve cover started to leak and needed replaced. I did not replace the COPs though.

 

Hmmm....75 mi from Bob, Dallas....I'm guessing JagMac?


Tom, glad to see you came to your senses and believed what Rick was telling you - Read thru a few of his excellent How-To pictorials and then think about him saying he spent 2 hrs on it w/o success! When that sinks in....heck, I don't think he spent 2 full hours on the oil pan gasket renewal!!!


I know it sounds easy-for-me-to-say since he's only 20 min down the road....but if you aren't gonna DIY, let me plead once more, "Take that thing to Bob" Have the missus or a best bud follow you out, drop it off and head on over to Dos Chile's Grande` for some authentic Mexican Cuisine in either Boyd or Bridgeport....
Then, when it's ready, repeat the road-trip; maybe give Sweetie-Pies Ribeyes on the square in Decatur a go (I haven't dined there, but can personally vouch for Dos Chiles)
I'd encourage you to replace the plugs as long as you have it opened up. Guess I need to do that on the wife's 05, now that I think of it. Think she's somewhere north of 90k now. Have done the 03 a couple years ago. Don't recall having a coil problem with either one, though.

 

It is at a shop now where they have a certified jag tech. Getting to Decatur from Univeristy Park in Dallas and have someone meet me there and then not have a car for several days(when I have to have one for business and then getting back- that's almost 6 hours of just travel and have no one I know that has that time, plus I am moving this month and have 2 major network projects that have to be done in the next 14 days. I have communicated privately with Bob, know my problem and it will be done by noon tomorrow. Guy feels that I got water in #3 and maybe one other and that it creates steam when warm, has nowhere to go, re liquifies and has started to cause rust on the coil or the plug or somewhere inside the socket and that is why it steadily gets worse

Guy working on the car says he would never use Bosch and that he will put the NGK in. So i getting 6 new plugs new coils on #3 and 5 and any needed seals gaskets. IMT seals (o-rings) have been replaced twice by dealer (?).

Thanks for the help and interest and I will report back the results.

Tom in Dallas