Ya I just blacked everything out. You're right, Its one thing if I am there, but another if she is, selfishly, I was not even thinking about that. Good thing we live in the penthouse of a condo unit, and the condo unit number was not on the invoice. Its not like we have a SFR. I've just been in a p*ssed off mood the past couple of days, not thinking rationally and basically taking the mindset of F the world. Besides this happening, have been battling back and forth with the guy who fixed my wife's exhaust, still just does not sound right, and work has been a nightmare.

I guess I am just naive when it comes to this stuff...... I couldn't imagine that someone would actually get a persons address from the internet (Jaguar forum for that matter) and target them. I mean there are plenty of ways to get peoples information then just forums. But for precautionary measures, again, your right, best not to just throw it out there for all to see.

Enough with the pity party, BRUTAL where those specs at my friend????? And would much appreciate all your hopes and prayers that my rear rim is not damaged and/or rear suspension!!!!

 

Set up the toe in front to -.03 to +.13 the more toe in towards +.13 the better
the spec jagv8 posted in the guide is fine, but will get you in trouble with a +/- .20 tolerance unless youre pushing out on the inside of the front tires to take up suspension deflection like mercedes rec. You do on their cars. All the rest of the specs are the same only toe in front was changed

 

Wives are what .380's are made for

In all seriousness though, better safe than sorry.

I know you have been in a craptastic mood to say the least. But look at the bright side. For all intensive purposes, the car is fine except for a tire. Your wife and baby are fine, as you are. Sh*t happens sometimes...

I'm sure the rest of the car is fine.

George

 

Ill be honest with you, I have NO FREAKING idea when looking at this if it makes sense. Reading Japanese 3 sheets to the wind would make about just as much sense to me as this. Here we go, if i give this to the guy will he know what the hell I'm talking about and what to do. Brutal where is the +/- tolerance you are talking about and how should it be adjusted on this sheet? Also is the "toe in 1.5-2mm correct, shouldnt that be labled "total front toe"? Basically I want to print something out and have this guy know what exactly to do. Thanks guys.

PS Androulakis, you're absolutely right on all aspects.

Here it is please make any necessary adjustments and or let me know what I have wrong (in laymens terms ):

front camber >2002.5MY in degrees:
RHD L -0.6+-0.5, R -0.2 +-0.5, R-L 0.4 +-0.7
USA,etc L -0.2+-0.5, R -0.55+-0.5, R-L -0.35+-0.7
ROW L -0.2+-0.5, R -0.4 +-0.5, R-L -0.2 +-0.7


front toe >in degrees, (all areas) -0.3 to+0.13(more toe in towards +.13 the better)


toe in 1.5-2mm
rear camber >2002.5MY in degrees:
(all areas) L -0.54+-0.75, R same, R-L 0.0+-0.75


rear toe >2002.5MY in degrees (R only):
(all areas) L 0.13+-0.1, R same, total 0.25+-0.17, thrust angle 0.0+-0.1

 

Brutal may mean the 09/2009 Vehicle Specifications I posted here:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...432#post188432
(laid out much better)

The idea is that 123+-4 means 123 plus or minus 4, so you'd aim for 123 but be happy within 4 either side.
RHD = right hand drive
ROW = rest of world
R = right
L = left
R-L = the difference between R and L

Go with Brutal's figure for toe in. He does this stuff for real. He means it would be OK at -0.03 (you left a zero out) but not really to go for that. Instead, get much nearer to +0.13, i.e. a small amount of toe in. I'd expect that to be total toe, ideally split evenly but the alignment guys know how to split it.

With RWD you usually have toe in for the front. When accelerating, the force from the rear momentarily kind of pushes the fronts apart so you point them in a bit to start with. Or something.

 

+.13 is toe for either left or right front toe in. total is those added together +.26
forget all the other numbers. their machine should have those correctly, the toe setting in front is what Jaguar changed after we kept telling them those toe setting were wearing out the inside of front tires. (tires dont lie)
I ALWAYS prefer more toe in, taking into account road force when driving which pushes out the front tires(toe out) This is why mercedes wants this taken into account when doing an alignment by installing a pressor bar between the inside front edge of the front tires. This simulates what the suspension will do when youre driving. When I do this I just push out with both my arms on the front tires after I set front toe. Sometimes this will show the tires going into the RED(out of spec) for toe out which will wearout the inside of the tires. Then I adjust for more toe in sitting there until when I push out on the tires they stay in spec where I want them. And this meens that sometimes I adjust the toe in stationary on the rack with too much toe in. When you drive the tires will be where they should be and youll have even wear...till the next pot hole..
I also left you a message if you need to call me

 

Ha thanks Jag and Brutal. I am somewhat getting it now, all the other numbers were throwing me off. Very confusing for someone who has never seen an alignment machine, nor completely understand how a full alignment works.

Anywho, this is all I'm giving the guy at the shop, nice and simple. Correct me if I'm wrong but this applies to all STypes not just the R's?

Same specs Jaguar recommends for 05 Jaguar S-Type R EXCEPT:


-Front toe in, Left and Right
+.13
-Total Front toe
+.26


Nice touch with the ......"till the next pothole" comment. However, this was no ordinary pothole you see, it was an asteroid crator, sent to this earth aimed at Main Street, Weymouth Massachusetts to ruin my life!

Maybe these specs should be posted as a sticky titled "Correct Alignment for STypes"? Jim, what do you think? Potholes are out on the prowl this time of year.

 

This camber/castor/toe stuff is probably well-explained on howstuffworks but here's a pretty fair intro from jaguar:

 

Title changed and FAQ'd as requested!

Bull - I for one would be livid with the tow service after all the crap that happened to your car and then for it to be treated with utter comtempt by them afterwards. You really NEED to put in a call / letter of complaint on that one.
You should also keep all receipts / bills etc and take pics of pothole / details of time / witnesses etc and put a claim into the local authority for compensation..

Sorry to hear bout your troubles and glad its all sorted now by the sounds of it

 

Nice post, and when you look at the toe in/out pics, you can see clearly that the tire wear is most severe on the corner of the front tire closet to the front of car. Toe'd out tire wears the inside tread block, and toe'd in wears the outside tread block

 

Well, I drove the car on to the flat bed. I do not think a winch was used on it other than to hold it in place while it was moving. Do you really think that a strap holding the car still could do that kind of damage? I must admit to my ignorance of when the car was towed as to what he attached the straps to to hold the car in place after I drove it on to the flatbed. It was taken off the truck and put back on and then taken off again when I was not around (hence the charge for two trips...)

I guess anything is possible, but I was guessing that he dropped the car when taking it off and that might have caused the damage, but I have no idea how it really occurred.

BB

PS: George, PM me with your address. The email didn't get through my provider...

 

Wait.. When did you do the 70 mile drive home you described as the weirdest ride of your life? It was after all the tows right? Did the tow truck drivers have the key at all times? Or did they just winch it up? As far as those ratcheting straps, they can exert a LOT of force. Some guys also use chains with hooks, that clip into cutouts on the bed, and then tighten the winch to tense the chains, and "lock" the car into place. If you look at the undercarriage of an S-Type in the air, there is really no where else to mount a tie strap or chain to in the front - unless you install the factory tow hook. The tie rod, because of it's design becomes the logical point (as in easily accessible) - unfortunately. Where else are you going to tie into - especially with an intact belly pan?

See the issue I have with your theory is that with a flatbed is there's no real way to "drop" a car unless the guy is an utter moron. You'd have to have the bed not touching the ground. And the point that would most likely be damaged would probably be the underbody immediately forwards of the rear wheels as they came off the bed and "dropped"...

George

 

Yes, the drive with the wheels pointing in a random direction was after the towing and front tire tire replacement. And, yes, the tow driver had the keys the whole time from Saturday night until Monday morning when the car was dropped off at Discount Tire.

They did tie the car down to the flatbed for the trip to the impound lot and for the trip to Discount Tire and may have used the tie rod as the contact point for the trip. I do know that he used two tie downs (at least while I was present), one on each side, but the damage was clearly only on the side where the tire went down.

Really, too many unknowns to make an accurate guess at this point. I am looking forward to getting the car back from the body shop soon (see the end of the thread Not my week with the STR)...

BB

BTW, George, the snail mail is en route...

 

Thanks again! Yeah I guess we're taking shots in the dark as far as what actually happened, for we will never know, it just seems really strange that there was no crazy impact yet you had such a significant bend to the inner tie rod to have had it happen simply by virtue of a pothole impact.

George

 

Here are the before and after specs, as you can see that pothole really messed the STR's world up. Thank god there was no damage to the rims, suspension, components. I took it for a drive after, didnt realize it was 4pm so i was in nothing but traffic on the highway, so couldnt get it up to speed. Hit 70-75 a couple times, and seemed fine. I did notice it seemed a little "grabbier" for lack of a better word. Not sure if that is called oversteer or under. Regardless they seemed to match it up close to Brutal's specs, so I am looking forward to getting it on some dry pavement tomorrow on the highway and around some corners.

Let me know if you see anyting that stands out that shouldn't, the guy was kinda surprised I wanted so much toe in.

 

looks fine for the most part. I would have brought the right rear toe to 14 also to match the left. And that -.9 on the left front with less negative on the right is gonna push the front of the car right. I would have set it either even, or more negative on the right less on the left to counteract road crown
not enough to really worry about except that front camber if it does indeed push to right on you

 

Your good you. I was going to mention that it seemed as though it was drawing ever so slightly to the right, I noticed the most when I was in the right lane of the highway. The steering wheel is almost always perfectly straight, and feels nice and tight. Just different from where it was originally. Ill bring it back in and see if they can do what you suggest.

 

Bull,

I printed your alignment spec sheet as a reference for when I get my new wheels/ tires and take the car to get aligned. I also noted Brutal's changes / comments.
Thank you so much for that. I'm glad everything worked out fine and the car feels good after simply replacing a tire and correcting the alignment. All's well that ends well.

Brutal, I have one more question for you as per your comments if you don't mind.

From what you have said ideal front toe in - to prevent unnecessary inner tire wear = +.13 degrees per side with a total toe in of .26 degrees. As far as Front neg camber - You want it as close as possible to even to prevent "pushing" from one side to the other.

Now I saw you mentioned adjusting Bull's Right rear toe to .14 to match the Left Rear. What would be an ideal toe in spec (in your opinion) for the rear wheels? Are we aiming for +.13 here as well? With a total toe of +.26 in the rear?

Thanks in advance,

George

 

And how would you vary the alignment specs for our 3.0 models? Remember, Bull's car is an STR....

As always, thanks for your input, Brutal....

 

Ahh, Yes Jon, Good call.

Although when I'm done I'm probably going to have a wheel / tire fittment much more closely resembling that of an STR rather than a 3.0. From what I understand (although I may be completely off base here) the suspension geometry between an 03+ Stype and an STR is exactly the same - the only thing that changes are shocks, springs, and wheels / tires.

All of which in theory should have no affect on alignment / tracking issues.

George