Hi All -

Newer owner of a White Onyx 2003 S-type R 192K miles, very much enjoying the car. Other car is a 2005 XJ Super V8, Black. My friends now refer to which car I drive as "Did you drive salt or pepper today?" This makes me smile of course.

Anyway -
Small problems
1. Left front turn signal doesn't work. All other indicators work as they should. Is this likely to be the bulb, a relay, the fixture?

2. Steering column goes up and down but not in and out.When I first got the car it moved in/out a couple of times. Possible that only part of that mechanism goes bad? Possible that I somehow disabled the function? Peddles do go in and out so all other functions on the steering column work.

Big Problem
1. A/C does not work. Fixit place repaired low side connectors. Says that condenser is blocked totally and likely therefore the evaporator as well. Compressor checks out OK, thankfully. Fixit shop thought that perhaps some "stop leak" product was used and now condenser blocked. Replacing both is obviously expensive but I'm committed to the car and have already spent good money fixing the low side fixture as fixit shop said had to do that to investigate rest of system. Does the idea of a "stop leak" product use spell trouble for the engine as well?

Hagerty's question -
1. Has anyone insured with Hagerty's? Both my Jags apparently qualify for their programs and the savings is to good to be true. Any experience / advice?

Thanks as always
Mike D

 

I have an agreed value policy from Hagerty on my X150 XKR and have been happy with the price at least (as have never made a claim) which was about half of adding the car to my regular auto policy with Progressive. Plus my regular policy would pay out based on the current depreciated value (like NADA) of the car which would not cover replacement costs for an equivalent car to mine hence the agreed value.
You do need a daily driver car (maybe one for each driver of the insured car) under my policy, but there are no mileage limits per year. They also add a charge of $50 or so for a membership to their car "club" which has a nice slick paper magazine and some other perks. IMO a good policy option for a weekend/limited use car that is cherished.

 

What kind of shop is this "fixit place"? Is it a general repair shop? An AC specialist? I'd highly recommend the latter. The Jaguar heat/AC system is a bit different than most, but not overly complicated. If not familiar with the details, it would be very easy to misdiagnose. You don't need a Jaguar specialist for the system, as long as they are aware of how everything ties together.

I've written a troubleshooting guide you may find of some use. The best part is no special tools are needed for most of the work. With an ordinary thermometer, you can do most of the diagnosis yourself with some simple observations. In particular, make sure the Dual Climate Control Valve (DCCV) is completely shutting off. This valve controls the output from the heater and is a very common fault. If bad, it can dump unwanted heat into the cabin, mimicking a bad AC system. Start with post #2 to test the DCCV, and then go from there based on the symptoms that are present:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ol-how-185002/

 

Mike

Thanks for the reply regarding your Hagerty experience. Their rates, the replacement value agreement, lack of mileage restraints, and cost for the level of coverage sounds too good to be true -so was just checking others experience.

Thanks again.

Mike D.

 

Karl -

Thanks for the INCREDIBLE link to the heating / cooling system in the car -

Never would I have thought someone could be so thorough.

Lots to digest - I need to look at exactly what my fixit shop did and diagnosed then I'll report back.

And my fixit shop is a general place, high quality but very expensive. My guess I could finish up the job elsewhere a little cheaper - and at a specialty A/C shop.

But my symptoms are that the A/C just blows very hot air all the time.

Thanks again and I'll follow up soon.

Mike D.

 

On the issue of the turn signal indicator, always replace the cheapest part first...

On the issue of the steering column, the gears that facilitate movement are made of nylon/plastic and get brittle over time... Open things up and have a look-see.

Good luck on the A/C issue.

 

Front turn signal will most likely be the bulb holder, just cleaning the contacts may work, judicious use of aluminuim foil may also help.

 

So just to follow up on Karl's A/C post, here is the exact way my shop wrote up their work on my A/C system.

Ac was low on charge . After recharging high side pressure bounces around like either a bad compressor or a restricted condenser . Cannot attach to low side fitting to see what is happening on low side . Fitting is damaged . Will need to start by replacing low side line to further diagnose .

After replacing hose it will not seal with other side line . Will need to replace other hose . Also found condenser is completely clogged up . Good chance evaporator is also plugged.

Also --- thanks to all who replied to my other questions about left turn signal, and steering column problem.

Now need to review Karl post and see about the symptoms - but now only hot air blows in.
Thanks,

Mike D

 

Their diagnosis does not inspire a lot of confidence, in my over-inflated opinion.


My first thought here is their gauge set is not making a good connection to the port on the car. IIRC, there's also a filter screen in one of the lines, just downstream of the compressor. (Don't quote me on the location.) If clogged, it could cause erratic pressure readings.

See my previous comment about their gauge set. I sure hope they tried a different gauge set for confirmation before condemning the test port itself.

My BS light started flashing with this one. This fitting leads a sheltered life, sealed under a plastic cap for years at a time. Maybe every 4 or 5 years one might use that fitting. The possibilities for damage are incredibly slim. If the valve inside the fitting is the problem, it is very easy to replace. The valve is very similar to what you find inside the valve stem on a tire.

This stuff isn't rocket science. I think there's a green O-ring for sealing. Properly operator error if they can't get the new line to seal properly at one end. Or the new part is defective or is the wrong part. The end of the adjacent hose leads a sheltered life, with very little possibility for damage inside a closed fitting. In addition to the flashing BS light, now the BS klaxon is sounding. It hurts my ears.

Based on their previous recommendations, I'm having trouble accepting this one at face value. Sounds like they're making expensive guesses with your money. See my previous comments about the filter screen.

What is the current status of the AC system? Is it still full of refrigerant, or has it been emptied? If still full of refrigerant, you can work through most of the guide with only a cheap thermometer. If empty, you can still do parts of the guide, such as the test of the DCCV.


Please define "hot". Same as ambient? Warmer than ambient? Slightly cooler than ambient? Big difference in how to proceed, so please specify.

 

Even though the high and low pressure ports live a sheltered life it doesn’t mean they can’t go bad. I have 2 S types And I found that my low side port on one car was stuck closed and the High Side port was giving me a rapidly fluctuating Needle on the gauge set. when I went to replace the Schrader valve using a spare parts off my other S-type (which is a parts car) I remove both of those Schrader valves I need to find that one of the two was also stuck closed. So that’s two cars with two or potentially three bad Schrader valves

 

Right, but you're talking about the little removeable piece that threads inside the fitting, right?


Those little doohickeys are easily replaceable with the right tool. Some of those valves are oddball sizes, but should be readily available. But for the OP, his shop replaced the entire line. That would imply the fitting itself is damaged. That's the part leading the sheltered life, living under a plastic cap, and only touched every few years during an AC service. I suppose anything is possible, but it doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

Interesting. This goes along with my theory of a problem with the test gauge connection, with the expensive internal bits of the AC system way down on the list of likely culprits.

 

yes one would think that they would be readily available and easy to replace with the right tool but you’d be wrong. I have a very expensive valve core removal tool cost $125. Brand-name professional tool. The valve cores in these cars at least the S types are fatter And when they stick they stick in the closed position. And when they freeze up the stem doesn’t depress so the tool has a hard time grabbing the core to pull it out since the high side is in a vertical position so the core wants to fall back down when you try to remove it. they have a different thread positioning as well. . they freeze up. They are longer. The tool has a hard time grabbing them. they are just a smidgen too long to be removed with the valve core removal tool so you struggle with it. I managed to get them out by doubling up a bunch of O-rings to give me a little bit more room to pull the cord back out of the valve mechanism. Long story short it wasn’t easy very frustrating lost a lot of gas trying to mess with it. Oh yeah in the valve core, they were $20 apiece and special order


This is the tool I used

Here you can see the high side dancing. It stopped after I replaced the valve core

 

I was following you okay up to the point where said I'd be the W word. I am absolutely not familiar with that concept.

I recently found the high side valve core was loose on my '02 V6. This valve core was a little bigger than the typical size you'd find on a bike or car.

I picked up one of these little puppies, a TLVC810 from CPS products, and was able to snug it down without any trouble. Amazon and eBay have them, maybe $10 or so. Might have been a different story if the valve core was stuck and I had to remove it, but I had no trouble tightening it.

https://www.cpsproducts.com/product-details/tlvc810/

 

Just had an epiphany, thanks to having raised 7 kids and having once been one myself. Nothing the shop said is untruthful, but they left out some important details. And now, as the late Paul Harvey would say, here's the rest of the story:

The low side valve core was jammed shut. Their test set couldn't make a proper connection with the valve core refusing to open. They tried removing the valve core to either free it up or replace it. They didn't have the correct tool (takes a special size) and boogered up the valve core. Now even with the correct tool, the valve core ain't coming out nor could it be freed up in situ. In service writer's language, this can be shortened to "fitting is damaged".

They just didn't go into detail about how it's damaged or who caused it. Ask if they still have the old line. I bet you will find the valve core damaged from using the wrong tool.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

Karl: In other words, the shop bodged it and the customer gets to pay....

 

Karl

Thanks again for the great experiential advice. I am going to call the shop on what you theorized happened - they seemed a little sheepish, not usual for this shop.
But I do think they botched the job just as you have suggested.

Thanks again.

Mike D.

 

Good luck. Hopefully it all works out well for you. I don't know your relationship with this shop. Maybe you're a long-time customer, have named your son after the shop owner, and would like to keep doing business there. Maybe you've only been there once. Or maybe something in between.

One tactic that might work is to ask for the old line back. Since the replacement doesn't seem to fit properly, tell them you'd like to take the original to a hose specialty shop that can fabricate a replacement or repair it. They may have already tossed it but who knows. The law in most places requires they make the old parts available to you, but if you've previously declined it may be too late.

 

I’m not saying the shop didn’t booger it up because it’s easy to booger it up. when the valve stuck and you try to make a connection, the connection is trying to push down on that valve core which is stuck closed so when you try to make that connection it kinda messed it up. I don’t think that’s really the fault of the shop. now the valve core can be removed but you have to be crafty with it. This is how I got mine out. I use the valve core removal rod that was one size bigger than the right size rod and then I put some sticky snot crap on the end of that tod so that it would grab onto the valve core due to the sticky substance. I unscrew the back of that nut where the rod for removing the valve core goes and I installed one or two more O-rings that would space that back nut on the valve assembly out a couple of millimeters and that allowed me to unscrew the core And pull the stem back far enough to allow the valve to close and removed the core. then I changed to the correct stem and put the new valve core in. Maybe you can tell the shop to try what I just suggested. And you won’t have to replace the entire line

 

Any updates? The suspense is killing me…