Hi Everyone!

I am a newbie here from Louisiana! I recently purchased a used 2002 S-Type V6 3.0. Recently, the "Fail Safe Engine" came on. My husband and I took the car to a certified mechanic who specializes in jaguars. He checked the codes and informed us that we need a throttle body replaced. We bought a spanking new throttle body and now the mechanic states that the car will "crank" but dies immediately -- similar to what it was doing before.

What in the world gives? We spent well over $2,000 for the part and still more problems? What could it be now? **sigh** (over here scratching my head).

Thanks for your time.

 

Hi, welcome. Sorry to hear about the problems your having. Couple things:

1) I had my throttl ebody replaced by the actual dealer, and they charged me $1400 with parts and labor
2) Do you know what codes were being given when the car went into limp mode?
3) What warnings came on when your car went into limp mode? Mine were "DSC unavailable, Parking fault, and engine fault".

Finally, did you ever have a problem with the car not starting or that it just threw itself into limp mode?

 

As you may already know, some of us have been bitten by the dreaded Limp Home failure over the past couple of months. Jaguar's fix has always been to replace the entire throttle body assembly, including the throttle position sensor. When your mechanic replaced your throttle body, did he replace your sensor as well?

Sealing these finicky throttle bodies from moisture invasion also appears to be critical in keeping the Limp Mode failure from returning. If your new throttle body was not installed and seated properly by your mechanic, that could also be a big part of what is causing your current problem. I recommend that you tell your mechanic about those of us on this forum who have already been through these issues, and then insist that he remove and re-install the throttle body being particularly careful to pin and seal it properly.

Keep us posted on his willingness to do these things for you and whether or not it makes any difference....

 

Hi Bull27!

Thanks for your response! Here are my comments and responses:

1) Wow! Where do you live? I would give anything to have paid that amount -- especially now that it is still "dead" as road kill. LOL I was also quoted the price of $2,100 for the actual part at a Louisiana dealership.

2) I don't know what the new codes are. I will ask the mechanic to see. It is strange, but he seems pretty "baffled" about this. Here's the deal, we live in a town that does not have a dealership. I purchased the car from Texas and I live in Louisiana. The closest dealership is 2 hours away in Shreveport. I may need to take the vehicle there and let them take a look. I know that the local mechanic has a good relationship with the dealership. I don't know what to do now.

3) When it first went in fail safe mode, I received an "engine fault" warning and something else. It is now with the mechanic, so I don't know. He simply said it will now crank, then die. Poof!

I hope your day is going well. It is so hot here in Louisiana! Whew!

 

Thanks so much Jon89 -

I went back and did my homework and saw your thread about a similar issue. Wow!

Thanks for the great tips! I am on the phone now with the mechanic to explain to him what you told me. I will keep you posted.

Thank goodness for this forum!!!

 

100% agreed! The first time they replaced the throttle body the limp home mode came back. Brought it back to the dealer and they admittted they did not properly install it, it was not seated properly and was not sealed completely i.e. moisture still getting in.

 

Its raining here in Boston as it has been for 4 weeks straight, i feel like I live in Seattle! Anyways, if the initial problem was that the car started fine but went into limp mode while driving, and now doesnt start, it has to be something the mechanic did/did not do.

Your mechanic can call the service manager at Jaguar of Norwood, MA, his name is George and reference the throttle body replacement he did on my black 05 S Type R a month ago. Im sure he will remember it seeing as I had to bring it back twice. They figured it out the last time after contacting Jaguar corporate for the correct installation procedure (troubleshooting). Let me know how it goes.

 

Thanks for all of your advice. Still no dice.

The mechanic lost a few employees and is behind a few days. He claims that he is at a lost. He did mention that he will re-install the throttle body (thanks guys!). When? Who knows. Our plan B is to get the car towed to the closest dealership (1.5 hours away) if the mechanic does not have this issue resolved by early next week.

I would give anything to get behind the wheel of my jag and drive it into the sunset. Ahh. The little things in life, you know?

I will keep all of you posted. The saga continues.

 

Here is what I think: Sign up for AAA if you dont have it. Get the premier (or whatever its called). If you have AAA, upgrade it. I think its like $40-$60/year. This will allow for a tow up to 90 miles, which is probably right around an hr and a half drive? Get it out of that mechanic's place, and have him refund you some of the money seeing as it is inoperable after the "fix".

I was stuck in NY when my throttle body problem occured. I was about 170 miles from Boston. My wife had AAA so we knew we could have it towed 90 miles. I signed up myself, and had it towed same day. At that point we had 180 miles of towing for free (sounds like a credit card bonus). They brought it 90 miles on her account which happened to be a rest area on Route 90 (the Mass Pike), then I called and used my account, they towed it the rest of the way. It would have cost some serious coin to tow it that far out of pocket, and its always good to have AAA anyways.

Let me know what you decide, but I think the sooner you get it out of his shop and to a dealer, the sooner you will be driving it. Good luck!

 

The only reason I renew our AAA Plus membership annually is for the long-distance towing (in our case, up to 100 miles). I haven't needed it for years, but you never know when you will. With this Limp Home issue still unresolved, having a towing plan could become crucial for you....

 

Now that I think about it, maybe it is 100 miles, if so, I have no freaking clue where I came up with 90. hmmmm...

 

Just checked my AAA membership and I've been a member for 42 years. The past 10-12 years (with a previous car) there have been several occasions where the free towing was a Godsend.
Don't leave home without your card.

 

southernjaggirl,

This has already been asked, but what were the codes?

Why in detail did the mechanic think the very expensive throttle body was the only thing to do? Particularly, to do first?

What sensors etc did the mechanic check before deciding this?

 

Good afternoon!

Hi Jagv8! My husband went to the mechanic this afternoon. Here's the code: P1586. Heard of this? Excuse my ignorance, but I have no idea what any of the codes mean.

Before this happened, the mechanic was in close contact with the dealership. he did a full diagnostic when he first got the car. All of the "symptoms" were pointing towards a throttle body. We contacted a dealership and based on what we told them, they confirmed this, but told us to do a few things first. This didn't work. We took the car to the local mechanic and we did not tell him we consulted with the dealership. We wanted to see what he would say. He did the diagnostic and ran other tests and told us the same thing -- throttle body...

The mechanic mentioned that he keeps getting the above-mentioned code. He stated that he would re-install part on Monday and see what happens.

I just feel sick that we paid over $2,000 for a part and something is still wrong.

I have free long distance towing through my insurance USAA. I need to confirm the max miles though. It so convenient to have a local mechanic however, you have all convinced me to think about having it towed to the dealership. If the mechanic does not have a resolution by Monday evening, we will get it towed on Tuesday.

I need a shot of Tequila.

 

Bottoms up! Cheers!

 

From http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/jaguar/

P1586 Throttle Control Unit Throttle Position Malfunction

Probably quite a number of things lead the PCM to throw that code. Heck, a faulty throttle will be one - just not by any means the only one.

There may well be a list of the causes, maybe even in some sort of priority. There are often diagnostic trees which a technician can work through step-by-step. However, the trees are firstly a guide and secondly every technician needs to know a lot more (can I say training, experience, etc?) rather than to follow the trees blindly. Similarly, the terse description of a code is only a guide not a command to blindly blame the thing it may point to.

I'm not saying thought etc hasn't happened - I simply don't know.

Oh, and thirdly the trees sometimes assume (gulp) that a supply of replacement parts just exists so they can be swapped, largely if not entirely ignoring costs!

(The above is not Jaguar-specific.)

There is specialist diagnostic software which sometimes helps (it can read the many sensors and even control the various actuators), but a skilled user (technician) is still what's needed.

(Again, not Jaguar-specific.)

I think Jag dealers still use IDS. There are poorer (but a lot cheaper) alternatives.

I'm a "if it's cheap and easy to swap" then I'll try swapping it kind of person. If it's expensive I'm very reluctant.

Diagnostic trees etc may well be available from Mitchell (spelling?) and/or Autodata. Probably from Jaguar, too. Maybe others. Technicians should know what's available as well as how to use it meaningfully.

The electrical circuit diagrams are very useful, and are easily obtained.

Sorry that this may explain things but probably doesn't actually help much apart fom that.

 

I am of the mind set that you bring the car to a mechanic/dealer, it is THEIR job to do the due dilligence, no matter how large this "diagnostic tree is. It is unfair and unprofessional to just replace expensive parts and HOPE it works. I'm sorry but this situation is unacceptable. They charge you $2000 and will probably be alot more if they continue to just replace the parts that could "cause" this code as opposed to researching, swapping, and eliminating all possible culprits.

Sorry a little rant, but Im pissed for you.

 

Bull27 - I agree. I'd be wanting my $2000 back, as the fault isn't fixed. Then I'd go elsewhere.

(I wouldn't have agreed to the $2000 in the first place but I've arguably got the experience to decide that.)

 

When I put my two cents in on this thread several days ago, I asked if the mechanic replaced the throttle position sensor along with the throttle body. The question was never answered. I'm no tech by any means, but I believe the throttle position sensor may very well be the problem (assuming the new throttle body was properly installed and sealed, and there's a chance that this did not happen if the mechanic had never swapped out an S-Type throttle body before)....

 

Hello Everyone!

Jagv8 - Thanks so much for you analysis. Once again, I am going to print this out and forward to the mechanic. I need to bring my jag to YOU.

Bull27 -- thanks again. Just like you name suggests...Yes, I concur -- this is BULLcrap. I will ask for a refund if it is not resolved. I wonder if I could get my replacement part back regardless? I really want to see if something was really faulty with the part in the first place. (??)

Jon89 -- thanks again. The question about the sensor was never answered because I don't have an answer. My husband went to see the mechanic and the mechanic mentioned that he would re-install the part on Monday and run another diagnostic. My husband probably did not remember to ask. I did fax over your note about the sensor and other helpful information. I will make sure to tell my husband to ask this question because as you mentioned, this may be the key to it all.