I have always wanted a Jaguar Mk.2 340 and now I am actively looking but I would welcome some advice as to what problems to look out for so that I don't end up buying a 'lemon'.

One car I have seen has poor bubbling paintwork both sides on the lower doors and wheel arches - is this one to avoid?

Thanks

 

MK2, 340, S type, or 420, all Small Saloons rot from the inside out. The bubbling that you see is just what can be seen, behind it there will be a lot more rust and rot. Expensive repairs.
Start out with the best example that you can inspect in person, never buy any car sight unseen.
Take your time, don't rush. Inspect inspect inspect. Don't buy someone else's problem.
Are you looking LEFT hand Drive? or RIGHT hand drive ? UK or US ?

 

It's worth joining the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club or Jaguar Drivers Club. Members of the local group will be very pleased to help and advise. If you prefer fairly original (i.e. not restomod), it's cheaper to spend more on a car that's already restored with photographic documentation of the work done - there are a lot of artists with body filler who produce something that looks great for about 18 months. It's worth examining a few cars, those of other club members and that in the British Motor Museum in Gaydon, a nice original car in daily driver condition.

Wheel arches and door bottoms can be replaced with patch panels. I've no idea how much the welding and painting would cost, but neither are cheap these days. For the cost of body parts, look at the Martin Robey website. It's possible to do the welding at home after some practice with a modern MIG. Don't expect pattern panels to fit out of the box. They will need adjustment. For simpler ones, it's as easy to make your own.

More critical areas for corrosion are the bottom of the A-post where it joins the sill and the inverted channels where the rear springs are located. You can't see the A-post to sill area without cutting out the rear bottom of the front wings. However, you can check the door fit, if it's good, the joint is probably OK, if not, the joint is weak or the car was poorly restored and distortion welded in. There's a description of what the gaps should look like here:
https://petersjaguarpages.wordpress....oor-alignment/

The mechanical parts are all pretty strong and survive well if they have been cared for. Spares are available for most parts, but aren't low cost any more. Have a look at SNG Barratt and David Manners websites. Engines should pull well and sound super smooth. Oil pressure should be 40 psi at 3,000 rpm with the engine at 70°C. Brakes require a hard push, but stop the car as well as any modern system.

It's easy to forget the interior. If it needs restoring and, with the possible exception of seats, it has to be close to original, the cost can be surprisingly high.

I could go on forever. I'm sure others will chip in.

 

Thanks for the good advice - I am looking for a right hand drive in the UK

 

Thanks for the all the useful information and in particular what the weak points are to look for.
If I do manage to find a reasonable example the info re body panels and spares will help.

 

This is all I could see



So even a little bubble can hide a lot of pain.

 

Personally I would look for a recently restored car with photos of the work done and receipts. Also look for a car with a good history of paperwork files, old MOTs and the likes.
First thing to do it work out what you want to spend on the car. If you look at a car that needs work even a little bit of body work (as per Rushi's photos above) you could spend your budget just in repairs.
The cost of restoring a car like the Mk2 is astronomical unless you have the skills to do the work yourself. I bought my S Type after someone else had spent £7000 on body panels and welding but I only paid £4000 for the car as a project. I did all the renovation work myself over 18 months and it cost me another £6000 plus change. If I had handed the car over to a garage you would have to add the cost of the labour to this which might by £100 an hour 8 hours a day for we will say 50 five day weeks totals £200,000. A friend of mine has spent over £50k on the rebuild of his S Type which is only worth £30k tops if he sold it.
There are people out there who are hobbist mechanics who like to tinker. They will have lots of projects on the go all the time and never enough spare time to finish all of them and never enough room to store them all. As it is a hobby they do not keep a record of the amount they have spent on the car and they defiantly do not tell their wives how much they spend. When a project is finished they sell them off to fund the next project and clear space for the next one but the sale price does not reflect the amount they have spent on it. If you look at the for sale ads when a car is up for sale for £35k that is the wife trying to get the money back. My advice is to set a budget which reflects what you think you would spend restoring a car and then look for a car that has already been restored in that price range. The biggest benefit is if you do this you car drive it away from the sale and enjoy it immediately rather than spending twice as much as you thought you would spend and have to wait a couple of years before you can drive it.

Whare abouts are you in the UK as you have not put this information on your profile?

 

It's all about the money - how much you've got or can justify on the car, and also your skill level and facilities. Anyone who has to ask this sort of question needs to think long and hard as to why they need one.

Old cars and motorcycles are endless trouble and expense but once they've got hold of you it's an incurable disease. Their main problem is that they have constant problems when you use them and go wrong when you don't. Everyone has to learn the hard way and then it's too late!

Ray

 

I don't quite understand the thoughts behind your comment that I ought to think long and hard before thinking I could join an elitist club of rich people with more money than sense.
Thank you for all the other respondents who have given helpful suggestions.

 

That was taken the wrong way. I think what Ray meant is that the love of owning an Old car can sometimes draw you into a never ending spiral of of repairs and expense if you get the wrong car. We are not elitists and as a retired Police officer I can assure you I am not rich but I have the capability, knowledge and skills to do all my own repairs. If this was not the case then costs of repairs would be beyond my meagre pension.
Recently I noted some rust bubbles on the rear quarters of my S Type. Got a quote from a body shop for over £3000 to repair and respray and that was based of what could be seen. More unseen damage would have been more time, more repairs and more money. We had some glorious sunny weather a couple of weeks ago here in the UK so I stripped the fuel tanks out, removed the rear bumper, rubbed down the offending area, cut out a couple of rust holed areas, welded in some repair plates I manufactured out of 1mm sheet steel, treated all the areas and painted it. Total cost less then £100 and four days of work.
A month ago I had a fuel leak under the front carb. Spent three days removing the carbs numerous times, replacing the banjo washers with copper ones and eventually sealed the leak. I would hate to think how much a garage would have charged me even if I could have found one that would be willing to work on a car of this age. (No computer port to plug into to diagnose where the leak was coming from.)

I think the comment "It's all about the money - how much you've got or can justify on the car, and also your skill level and facilities. Anyone who has to ask this sort of question needs to think long and hard as to why they need one" was made to put into perspective the costs of repairs if you were to buy the wrong car and whether you either have the skills to repair it yourself or if you have pockets deep enough to pay someone else to do it for you. We are not rich elitists, we are poor enthusiasts and you are are welcome to join our little club at anytime. Just make sure you buy the right car and not a lemon that will drain your bank account like the fuel leak I had draining my fuel tank. Don't for get that these are 60 year old cars and the previous owner might have taken some short cuts when repairing the car just prior to you buying it. Hiding a problem is not the same as repairing it.

 

What everyone is trying to say is that there pros and cons to the compact Jaguar saloons. It's easy to be carried away with the shine and regret it afterwards, but a good buy will be a joy! So pros and cons.

Cons:

• Like all cars of the time, they rust, and the body structure is relatively complicated, making good professional restoration expensive.
• The values, even of superb 3.8 MOD, are not so high and are unlikely ever to match E types or Aston Martins, though in some ways they may be better cars.
• One consequence of the above is that many have been botched.
• To make the restoration process tolerable in terms of cost, you have to learn a lot of skills, and do much of the work yourself.
• They are still old cars.
• Spares are no cheaper than modern and a few are unobtainable.
• Many so-called garage mechanics are not interested and don't want to know. You need a specialist.

Pros:

• They are beautiful as original.
• Everyone loves them, lets them out at junctions, and call the driver sir or boss. They're not out of place outside the Ritz or the Casino at Monte Carlo.
• They were modified in the day and now most people will not take you to task on tasteful modifications as they aren't rare.
• They are all ace to drive, still fast, and can more than hold their own in modern traffic.
• Three-quarters sorted they are reliable and tough as old boots.
• Rebuilding one may take you forever or even longer, but the satisfaction is immeasurable. When you have other problems in life, there is no better distraction for keeping you sane.

And the final warning for buying: steel is better than rust holes and rust holes are better than filler.

 

I think the 340 is a very smart choice. The 3.4 is a sweet engine (some say the best) and the prices are much lower than for an earlier Mk2. Take your time searching. The hunt is part of the fun. The problem is falling for a car, keep listening to your head, there are still a lot of these cars out there. Don't believe any sellers telling your there are people queueing up. These days they take a while to sell.

 

Take a bright LED flash light with you and check where the pan hard rod attaches to the body and also the spring pockets.
Remove the bottom back seat; extreme examples of rust here will show day light when the spring pockets are rusted right into the rear seat area.

 

Everyone would love a MK-2 but the S type is a better MK-2.
S type was built from 1963 to 1968: About 24 thousand were built for the entire world market.

it has the Independent rear suspension of the E type,

Twin tanks,

Double exhaust system,

Roomier interior,

Beautiful wood dash,

Giant boot,

Reclinable seats,

Test drive BOTH. You will find the MK-2 interior is a bit cramped unless you are a short person,

you will find the MK-2 rides somewhat harsh compared to the S type,

you will find the Ventilation & Heating system of the S type to be superior, easier to control, and easier to repair.

And it sells for less than the MK-2

 

Thank you for the fuller picture, chaps, - another thing that's needed in old car ownership is a sense of humour.- it's a love/hate relationship.

I'm far from elitist, I'm a bit envious of the shiny cars and expensively rebuilt engines I see on here as my old oily-rag '66 S Type is used in all weathers and I'm just hoping it will see me out before it needs the bottom welding back in and the lump hauled out for rebuild. I'm almost 78 years old but the problem is that I feel fine but my overdrive has packed up.

As well as the S Type, I have a very tidy '68 Triumph TR5 car and twenty six old bikes - you have to have a spare bike or two. Half a dozen of these I use regularly throughout the year, some are very shiny and some are not. Life is just a treadmill of repairing, renovating and servicing and then doing my best to wear them up again. I treat them like my kids - I show no favouritism.

If you live in the East Anglia area, Mr roy, I'll happily come and kick tyres with you when you find a car that ticks your boxes.

Ray

 

This is very interesting, I knew of the S type but did not appreciate the differences which make it a good prospect.
Presumably they still suffer the same tin worm issues though or did the design improvements help to make it less of a problem perhaps?

 

The S Type is the better car but they all suffer from tin worm as much as any 1960s Jaguar. Body work is the most expensive item on the car and the most expensive to repair professionally. It is not what you can see, the odd bubble of rust on the paint work, but what lies beneath once the paint has been stripped back.
If you are a half competent handyman most small jobs are repairable at home on the drive. I noticed last winter that on my S Type the lower rear wing just under the bumper was showing signs of rust bubbles. I took advantage of the good weather a couple of weeks ago in the UK to take the paint off and see what I had. Yeh it was rust coming through as this area is a sealed box so any moister that gets in there stays. Had to take the bumper off, remove the fuel tanks, cut out the offending areas then weld in new sections I fabricated with 1mm steel sheet, a sand bag and a ball paned hammer. Welded the new stuff in having treated the inside with new paint and Hammerite before finally filling and blending in the paint work. Took me several days to complete but all is good.
What I found, to explain, was the result of bad workmanship from the garage that did all the welding on my car 14 years ago just prior to my buying it. Long story short I bought the car from a guy who had run out of money having had loads of new panels welded in by a company called "Flying Cat Engineering" in Hertfordshire. New front wing, repair arch on the other. All the doors had had the bottoms welded, new sills both sides and two new rear wing lower repair panels and rear valance. Buy that stuff now and you are looking at the best part of £7000 plus labour costs. The problem is they let the apprentice do the work so it seemed. Underneath the new rear wing repair panels there had been no protection work done to the old metal. All the old metal was rusty and some which should have been cut out was just hammered back to allow the new panel to be welded in place. Bloody Monkeys in my opinion. So when I removed the offending rusted outer panel I spent a good day rubbing down the inside panels, treating them with rust cure, under coating them with Hammerite paint then painting them with Zinc paint before welding. Once the new repair was complete I then injected the area with Hammerite. I just believe that if you are going to do the job then it is worth going the extra mile as it will save you having to do it again as I have found 14 years down the line.
The moral of this tale is it does not matter what the outside looks like it is what is underneath and some small areas of rust can be hiding a larger area of expensive work. New paint can just be hiding the rust. I take photos of every stage of the work I do to show any potential buyer what and how it has been done. If someone says it has been restored ask for receipts and photos for the work done.
You still have not updated your location Roy but the offer made by Ray regarding checking out cars for sale stands with me as well if you are in the South West.

 

yes, but for some unexplained reason the S type seems to be a survivor. And the S type was rust- proofed at the factory, at least the ones sent to USA were.
I found mine in California in 2004, unrusted, the California climate preserves old cars. I used to live in Tennessee, and I looked everywhere, no S types to inspect but the wife of a Vanderbilt Hospital doctor drove one and it caught my eye. ( the car, not the wife), I asked my local Jaguar mechanic what that "extended length" MK-2 was and he replied "must be doctor so and so's S type, his wife drives it, We service it here".
Previously I had test-driven a friend's restored MK-2 and I was dissapointed at its harsh rough ride because I am used to the ride of my other Jag, the XJ-6. "That's how they are, he said". I no like this I thought.
Then I investigated the S type. It has the E type IRS suspension, just like my XJ-6. Must ride smoother.
Then I saw a tiny advertisement for an S type. I asked for photos and a million questions.
The owner didn't mind, I phoned him, he was an older gentleman who owned other classic Jaguars, lIke a MK-4, a MK-8 ( the actual MK-8 used in a Hollywood movie by Alfred Hitchcock). He kept them in a basement with ramp under his office.
I flew from Nashville to San Francisco, he picked me up at the airport. Drove to his office. An employee brought the S type out after I was given a tour of the basement. When I saw the car in daylight, I was in shock. Unrestored other than a respray in 1984. Like a new car. I paid the price eyes closed. Then he started passing me years of registration and servicing papers.
I drove the car to Nashville with the only trouble, a flat tire in Texas. 3 thousand miles, 3 days and 3 nights. I still have the S type today. Like new.