03 X-Type Rust
#21
04-21-2010, 01:37 PM
Hello,
I've finally finished the repair and estimate I spent about 40 hours in total. About 1/3 of the time was spent on planning as I went. Now that I've done it, the next time would be easier and I know what not to do. For example: I wouldn't remove the bumper since the inner fender shrouds should come off with it in place. You still have to remove the front inner fender shrouds, front fenders and both front doors, along with the plastic body-colored moulding under the doors. You will break the plastic clips holding the mouldings so plan ahead and see your dealer or a body shop supply house for replacements. There are 36 clips in total: 18 on each moulding with 9 each of two types. Also, the doors come off without disturbing the hinges: you simply remove a brass-colored set screw on each hinge, remove the hex head bolt holding the limiting strap and unscrew / unplug the two wiring harnesses on each side and the doors easily lift off. Obviously, they are heavy!
I cut-out the rusted areas, coated the inside box section / sill with POR-15, sprayed Waxoyl inside the sill and outside the sill but inside the rocker panel through OEM access holes and three holes that I drilled under the aluminum sill plate. I fabricated patch panels to match the original contour (this alone took several hours, having to pie-cut and weld them into a box shape) and welded them to each front corner. The welds were ground smooth and a thin layer of body filler was added, plus priming and finish color. Finally, I coated the underside of the rocker panel with POR-15 and covered that with rubberized spray undercoating. The repair isn't visible.
As I wrote earlier, the rust starts at the front of the inner box section (which isn't visible until you cut the rocker panel open). Then, the rust spreads to the outer rocker panel and will appear just below the lower door hinge. By the time it reaches the outer rocker panel and is visible the corrosion is serious. Again, unless Jaguar somehow changed the design or manufacturing process I suspect corrosion will occur on later models. In fact, I saw a dismantled '05 at a local body shop and the corrosion had begun in the same place.
I have lots of photos - anyone know how I can attach them?
If you attempt this repair, post here and I'll assist you in any way I can.
Good luck,
Steve
I've finally finished the repair and estimate I spent about 40 hours in total. About 1/3 of the time was spent on planning as I went. Now that I've done it, the next time would be easier and I know what not to do. For example: I wouldn't remove the bumper since the inner fender shrouds should come off with it in place. You still have to remove the front inner fender shrouds, front fenders and both front doors, along with the plastic body-colored moulding under the doors. You will break the plastic clips holding the mouldings so plan ahead and see your dealer or a body shop supply house for replacements. There are 36 clips in total: 18 on each moulding with 9 each of two types. Also, the doors come off without disturbing the hinges: you simply remove a brass-colored set screw on each hinge, remove the hex head bolt holding the limiting strap and unscrew / unplug the two wiring harnesses on each side and the doors easily lift off. Obviously, they are heavy!
I cut-out the rusted areas, coated the inside box section / sill with POR-15, sprayed Waxoyl inside the sill and outside the sill but inside the rocker panel through OEM access holes and three holes that I drilled under the aluminum sill plate. I fabricated patch panels to match the original contour (this alone took several hours, having to pie-cut and weld them into a box shape) and welded them to each front corner. The welds were ground smooth and a thin layer of body filler was added, plus priming and finish color. Finally, I coated the underside of the rocker panel with POR-15 and covered that with rubberized spray undercoating. The repair isn't visible.
As I wrote earlier, the rust starts at the front of the inner box section (which isn't visible until you cut the rocker panel open). Then, the rust spreads to the outer rocker panel and will appear just below the lower door hinge. By the time it reaches the outer rocker panel and is visible the corrosion is serious. Again, unless Jaguar somehow changed the design or manufacturing process I suspect corrosion will occur on later models. In fact, I saw a dismantled '05 at a local body shop and the corrosion had begun in the same place.
I have lots of photos - anyone know how I can attach them?
If you attempt this repair, post here and I'll assist you in any way I can.
Good luck,
Steve
#22
04-21-2010, 08:33 PM
my 2003 xtype seems to already have some kind of protection applied... it was in a wreck, i had to replace passanger fender, inner fender liner (black plastik), the rocker panel molding and i have removed my bumper a few times in this process ( going to have to do it again when i have it refinished). i have no seen any forms of rust. and i have done extensive work to the passanger side suspension & drive axle. also havent noticed rust on anything but the exhaust underneath the car except for normal rust on axles. i try to wire brush rust areas underneath when i am there though. the bottom is like a painted on tan color. almost reminds me of some rust-protection i did to a 97 grand prix but a better job. hopefully this will take care of the rust problem, i plan on doing a little rubberized coating myself though. also i try to high pressure wash around the rocker panel moldings everytime i was the car to eliminate build up.
#23
04-22-2010, 07:27 AM
Hello,
There are two 1" or so rubber plugs near the front door hinges. They are easily accessible when either the front door or fender are off the car. Remove them and look at the inner box section metal that's just inside the A-pillar / rocker panel. If the inner metal is rusted, then you'll eventually have the outer rocker panel rust that has been written about. That's where the rust starts.
With the plugs removed it would be a good time to spray some Waxoyl in the cavity that's between the inner box section and outer rocker panel. The Waxoyl applicator hose is thin enough to fit in the space between the inner and outer metal sections. Like its name implies, Waxoyl is a paraffin-oil mix that when warm flows like melted butter. As it cools, it solidifies and remains that way and encapsulates the rust stopping its spread. I've used it on other British car restorations and it works very well. Do an on-line search and you'll find sources of it. The kit comes complete with a pump and pressurized can. The can sits in a pot of hot water to soften the mix and you spray it with the pump / hose.
Good luck,
Steve
There are two 1" or so rubber plugs near the front door hinges. They are easily accessible when either the front door or fender are off the car. Remove them and look at the inner box section metal that's just inside the A-pillar / rocker panel. If the inner metal is rusted, then you'll eventually have the outer rocker panel rust that has been written about. That's where the rust starts.
With the plugs removed it would be a good time to spray some Waxoyl in the cavity that's between the inner box section and outer rocker panel. The Waxoyl applicator hose is thin enough to fit in the space between the inner and outer metal sections. Like its name implies, Waxoyl is a paraffin-oil mix that when warm flows like melted butter. As it cools, it solidifies and remains that way and encapsulates the rust stopping its spread. I've used it on other British car restorations and it works very well. Do an on-line search and you'll find sources of it. The kit comes complete with a pump and pressurized can. The can sits in a pot of hot water to soften the mix and you spray it with the pump / hose.
Good luck,
Steve
#25
04-23-2010, 08:56 PM
Hello,
I'm not looking to do this repair again any time soon! My fix wasn't as extreme as a body shop might do, assuming they'd cut off and repair the entire rocker section front-to-rear. I spoke with a Jag-authorized body shop and they estimated that the complete job would be around $6K - probably more than half the car's value. The rocker repair sections are about $650 each side, plus freight, and would have to be ordered from the U.K.
I limited the cutting to only the front portion of the rocker that was perforated. Looking inside the open sill, I could see that the serious corrosion only extended about 10" back and the rest of the sill only had a narrow band of rust at the very bottom where I assume water would sit. By spraying POR-15 and following up with Waxoyl, I hope that I've encapsulated the rust from both sides - so we'll see how long it lasts.
Good luck,
Steve
I'm not looking to do this repair again any time soon! My fix wasn't as extreme as a body shop might do, assuming they'd cut off and repair the entire rocker section front-to-rear. I spoke with a Jag-authorized body shop and they estimated that the complete job would be around $6K - probably more than half the car's value. The rocker repair sections are about $650 each side, plus freight, and would have to be ordered from the U.K.
I limited the cutting to only the front portion of the rocker that was perforated. Looking inside the open sill, I could see that the serious corrosion only extended about 10" back and the rest of the sill only had a narrow band of rust at the very bottom where I assume water would sit. By spraying POR-15 and following up with Waxoyl, I hope that I've encapsulated the rust from both sides - so we'll see how long it lasts.
Good luck,
Steve
#26
04-23-2010, 09:24 PM
#27
04-23-2010, 09:32 PM
#28
04-23-2010, 09:43 PM
#29
04-23-2010, 10:14 PM
#30
04-24-2010, 04:51 AM
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#32
04-29-2010, 10:44 PM
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I just started the process on a customer's car...what a mess on such a pretty car...the rest of the car is a cherry!...but that front rocker is a mess.
I already ruled out the parts from the UK...darn they are expensive...the customer does not want to spend that much on the car...so I will patch it.
I was thinking of buying a rocker from a ford contour or other similar car and fit the dog leg as it's easier to modify an existing part than to start from scratch. Any one has an idea on a cheep rocker that fits?
Also, I don't have access to the attachement pictures...is it because I am new to the board? Do I need to ask someone for access?
Best regards
Serge
I already ruled out the parts from the UK...darn they are expensive...the customer does not want to spend that much on the car...so I will patch it.
I was thinking of buying a rocker from a ford contour or other similar car and fit the dog leg as it's easier to modify an existing part than to start from scratch. Any one has an idea on a cheep rocker that fits?
Also, I don't have access to the attachement pictures...is it because I am new to the board? Do I need to ask someone for access?
Best regards
Serge
#34
04-30-2010, 07:42 AM
Hello,
Serge, PM me (Private Message, use the link below your sign-in) with your e-mail address and I'll send you some photos. What year is your customer's car?
I'm an amateur restorer with limited welding skills and only a stick / stitch welder so patching the rocker and trying to stop the spread of the corrosion with POR-15 and Waxoyl was my only option. On my '03 the corrosion was the worst at the front, at the base of the A-pillar, and the inner and outer panels were fairly solid from 10" or so back.
Good luck,
Steve
Serge, PM me (Private Message, use the link below your sign-in) with your e-mail address and I'll send you some photos. What year is your customer's car?
I'm an amateur restorer with limited welding skills and only a stick / stitch welder so patching the rocker and trying to stop the spread of the corrosion with POR-15 and Waxoyl was my only option. On my '03 the corrosion was the worst at the front, at the base of the A-pillar, and the inner and outer panels were fairly solid from 10" or so back.
Good luck,
Steve
#35
05-09-2010, 03:16 PM
What would a local body shop (not dealer) charge for something like this, without ordering panels from UK? I see a little bubbling paint and rust in front door corners as mentioned in this thread. So sad, because my X with over 100K miles still looks so beautiful. I might go the sealing route. Is removing the rubber plug and saturating in there going to do it? Or is removing panels the only way? Anyone have pics of how to remove the panels along with a write up of tools needed (sizes of socket wrench attachments needed, etc)?
Looks like Waxoyl is only available in Europe. What is a similar American product? I like the methodology of heating to liquify and then it hardens - only way that makes sense to really slow down corrosion. I see some "rust converter" products, is that all BS?
I saw a few dudes who posted in this thread mentioned they have pics and could not post them. Email them to me and I will post them, humyz@aol.com
Looks like Waxoyl is only available in Europe. What is a similar American product? I like the methodology of heating to liquify and then it hardens - only way that makes sense to really slow down corrosion. I see some "rust converter" products, is that all BS?
I saw a few dudes who posted in this thread mentioned they have pics and could not post them. Email them to me and I will post them, humyz@aol.com
Last edited by Humy; 05-09-2010 at 04:53 PM.
#36
05-09-2010, 06:05 PM
Hello,
As I wrote in an earlier post, by the time you see bubbling paint below the lower front door hinge the corrosion is well established and will undoubtedly look like mine did. The inner rocker section rusts first and then it spreads to the outer panel which you can see once the mouldling is removed. I don't think merely coating with Waxoyl will be enough since there is an inner and outer rocker panel. Removing the plugs only gives you limited access to the area between the inner and outer panels and shooting WaxOyl there will only coat the area directly beneath the plug where the rust will have already eaten away at the inner section. It's too late.
To do a better job requires you to cut out the worst sections and replace with new metal. To do so you will have to remove the following:
Lower plastic moulding: pretty easy but you'll break the plastic fasteners. There are 18 on each moulding - 9 underside facing up and 9 horizontal facing inward.
Front doors: easy - just take out the brass colored set screws, there is one on each hinge, unscrew / unplug the wiring harnesses, and remove the door limiting strap's hex bolt, and carefully lift the door from the hinges - alignment won't change this way.
Front bumper and inner fenders, then the fenders: you need to remove the lower shroud first, then the front bumper, then the fender liners and finally the fenders. Fender removal is still pretty easy - remove bolts along top, two bolts at bottom, two inside the fender (accessible once you remove the fender liners) and two behind the bumper corners. You'll figure it out once you see the fasteners.
Getting to this stage you will have invested about four - five hours or so if you haven't ever done it. Then the real work begins with:
- cutting out the rotted metal,
- coating what's accessible with POR-15 and then WaxOyl. I also drilled three 1/2" holes under the polished Jaguar sill plate which is held on with aggressive double-faced tape and sprayed WaxOyl there and inside any other factory holes along the rocker,
- fabricating patch panels,
- welding them in,
- grinding the welds,
- applying a skim coat of filler,
- sandiing,
- priming,
- finish color.
Then assembling everything.
A body shop may be able to do this kind of patch job but I don't know what they'd charge. Show them my photos and write-up and see if they'll give you an estimate. The $6,500 estimate I got assumed that the entire rocker assemblies would be cut out and replaced with factory-supplied metal. But, the shop said that they could only fix the rocker if the inner sills were in good shape.
You could always do the disassembly / reassembly yourself and save those hours in labor charges, and have the body shop only do the specialized fabricating, welding, paint work.
If you're thinking about disassembly, get a subscription to AllData for $20/year and look at the body section for more detailed instructions. Also, Eastwood sells a product that's similar to WaxOyl - check their website.
Good luck,
Steve
As I wrote in an earlier post, by the time you see bubbling paint below the lower front door hinge the corrosion is well established and will undoubtedly look like mine did. The inner rocker section rusts first and then it spreads to the outer panel which you can see once the mouldling is removed. I don't think merely coating with Waxoyl will be enough since there is an inner and outer rocker panel. Removing the plugs only gives you limited access to the area between the inner and outer panels and shooting WaxOyl there will only coat the area directly beneath the plug where the rust will have already eaten away at the inner section. It's too late.
To do a better job requires you to cut out the worst sections and replace with new metal. To do so you will have to remove the following:
Lower plastic moulding: pretty easy but you'll break the plastic fasteners. There are 18 on each moulding - 9 underside facing up and 9 horizontal facing inward.
Front doors: easy - just take out the brass colored set screws, there is one on each hinge, unscrew / unplug the wiring harnesses, and remove the door limiting strap's hex bolt, and carefully lift the door from the hinges - alignment won't change this way.
Front bumper and inner fenders, then the fenders: you need to remove the lower shroud first, then the front bumper, then the fender liners and finally the fenders. Fender removal is still pretty easy - remove bolts along top, two bolts at bottom, two inside the fender (accessible once you remove the fender liners) and two behind the bumper corners. You'll figure it out once you see the fasteners.
Getting to this stage you will have invested about four - five hours or so if you haven't ever done it. Then the real work begins with:
- cutting out the rotted metal,
- coating what's accessible with POR-15 and then WaxOyl. I also drilled three 1/2" holes under the polished Jaguar sill plate which is held on with aggressive double-faced tape and sprayed WaxOyl there and inside any other factory holes along the rocker,
- fabricating patch panels,
- welding them in,
- grinding the welds,
- applying a skim coat of filler,
- sandiing,
- priming,
- finish color.
Then assembling everything.
A body shop may be able to do this kind of patch job but I don't know what they'd charge. Show them my photos and write-up and see if they'll give you an estimate. The $6,500 estimate I got assumed that the entire rocker assemblies would be cut out and replaced with factory-supplied metal. But, the shop said that they could only fix the rocker if the inner sills were in good shape.
You could always do the disassembly / reassembly yourself and save those hours in labor charges, and have the body shop only do the specialized fabricating, welding, paint work.
If you're thinking about disassembly, get a subscription to AllData for $20/year and look at the body section for more detailed instructions. Also, Eastwood sells a product that's similar to WaxOyl - check their website.
Good luck,
Steve
#37
05-10-2010, 07:32 AM
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My customer's car is a 2002...I charged $2000 and next time I do one it will be at least $2500....Rust is like that, every time you look at it from the outside it always looks better than it is in reality. I had to replace the entire front corners and a part of the rocker. The ideal would be to replace the entire rocker...so figure about $2000 + the price of the parts, whatever they are.
You won't save much by undressing the car...one hour at max...
I am in Napierville, Quebec...that's close to the upper state NY border...It seems like I have another one lined up, a 2003...a green one this time.
I do antique restoration as well so I am used to doing rust repair and creating panels...but this car was a real surprise. The rest of the car is such a cherry...
Do your cars leak oil? I have to replace the front crank seal and the air conditioning compressor is leaking too...are these typical?
You won't save much by undressing the car...one hour at max...
I am in Napierville, Quebec...that's close to the upper state NY border...It seems like I have another one lined up, a 2003...a green one this time.
I do antique restoration as well so I am used to doing rust repair and creating panels...but this car was a real surprise. The rest of the car is such a cherry...
Do your cars leak oil? I have to replace the front crank seal and the air conditioning compressor is leaking too...are these typical?
#38
05-10-2010, 07:57 AM
Hello,
The crank front oil seal seems to be a common leak if you're talking about the seal on the driver's side where the serpentine belt is located. I've not done mine (yet) and it doesn't look too difficult, but AllData says you need a couple of special tools. I've replaced seals on other cars with standard pullers (for damper removal), an oil seal pick and have rigged a press tool. The seal is only $5 from the dealer.
If you have pictures of the repair on your customer's '02 I'd like to see them.
Good luck,
Steve
The crank front oil seal seems to be a common leak if you're talking about the seal on the driver's side where the serpentine belt is located. I've not done mine (yet) and it doesn't look too difficult, but AllData says you need a couple of special tools. I've replaced seals on other cars with standard pullers (for damper removal), an oil seal pick and have rigged a press tool. The seal is only $5 from the dealer.
If you have pictures of the repair on your customer's '02 I'd like to see them.
Good luck,
Steve
#39
05-10-2010, 06:19 PM
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#40
05-11-2010, 08:15 AM
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I shouls have taken pictures of the repair since they are so common....but I don't take pics of the work in the garage...its just another car going through...the cars don't stay long enough for me to get attached to them...lol...although, I was growing fond of this Jag...these cars grow on you....
Also, you had pictures here...although I have not been able to see them because of the restrictions of this board....so I did not feel it was worth my time to do the pics...its alot of work documenting such an extensive repair.
Also, you had pictures here...although I have not been able to see them because of the restrictions of this board....so I did not feel it was worth my time to do the pics...its alot of work documenting such an extensive repair.