Hey Everyone,

I know this issue has come up time and time again, but I had a few more questions that the search box can't seem to answer lol. The person I bought the car from "said" it was running fine, they parked it, the battery died, they replaced the battery, and then it wouldn't start. It appears that someone else has already tried working on it. Based on what I've found, it seems they may not have told the whole truth and just wanted out from under the car. I originally bought it because it looked good and I thought it was going to be a simple fix of just having the keys reprogrammed to the car. However, it looks like it's more complicated than that :-/.

Here's the story of what I do know:

It is a 2002 Jaguar X-Type 2.5 Automatic with approx 164,000 miles that is experiencing a no start condition. The starter will turn over the engine if manually engaged however the car will not start (good starter). I have checked that the start signal (+) from the key is making it to the start relay. The relay has Batt (+) at the relay also. The wire from the relay to the starter is ok. The ground for the relay coil does have ground when the key is in run position, however, the ECM is dropping the ground to the start relay as it would if the PATS were failing security. However, I have followed the PATS prove out flowchart and the security led goes out after 3 seconds and the document I have states that if the light goes out then PATS is correctly passing for my key. Also, I am getting a P1638 code as well as a C1155 from the DLC OBDII connector using my bluetooth code reader (BAFX) and the message center indicates "gearbox fault." I have cleared both codes from the OBDII and they have both come back. I've visually inspected the circuit board for the TCM and there is no evidence of water damage either. It had been "sealed" previously.

Per the Jaguar service manual I have, P1638 indicates that the ECM is unable to communicate with the instrument cluster on the CAN. I have worked through the entire network and there are no shorts or open circuits. Also, both the ECM and IC are measuring approx 120 ohms each for termination and the entire CAN measures approx 60 ohms with all modules connected (CAN + to CAN -). I also checked that the Park/Neutral safety to the ECM is sending battery voltage to the ECM when in Park and Neutral as it should per the circuit diagrams. Based on pinpoint test D in the service manual, it is directing me to replace the instrument cluster. I believe this makes sense as the ECM appears to be properly disabling the car from starting because it can't get the "ok to start" signal from the instrument cluster. Also, if the cluster can't communicate with the TCM, I'd expect a gearbox fault as well.

My question is whether or not there are any other possible causes for this issue? Also, I believe the cluster and ECM are original, but I'm concerned they may not be. I've found a few online and they are saying that the model of cluster I have is for a 2002 xtype "prior" to VIN C66699. However mine is SAJEA51D32XC82859. The model number for my instrument cluster is: 1X4F-10849-EJ. The serial number is: 2159471. Says NVM:01 ROM:10-DEC-01 TestSW:2.33. My ECM is PN: 1X43-10K975-AP.

Is there a way to verify that these are for the VIN above? I'd hate to spend money and replace the cluster with the wrong one. Also, the IC had an ETM code for "incorrect ECM" logged. I'm wondering if someone tried swapping it with a known good unit or something. Seems odd that it would've communicated that though if it is having difficulty communicating on the CAN. Are the ETM DTCs reliable? I've read online (this forum I believe) that they can be as old as the car and you should use OBDII instead for diagnosis. I know this is a lot to digest, but I wanted to give you as much info as I could. Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.

The nearest dealer to me is about an hour away and I'd have to tow the car there for them to look at it and would rather get this thing going for as little as possible. Also, if anyone knows of a reputable place that could "clone" my cluster into a replacement, that info would really be appreciated as well.

Thanks!

James

All Codes I've been able to read:

OBDII:
P1638
C1155

ETM:

B1205
U2197
B2879
U2511
U1900
B1318
U2510
B1359
B1681

 

You're basically doing the right things - but ignore all ETM codes as they will be years old. They are never to be trusted (unless perhaps if you see one appear that wasn't there yesterday).

You might have some sort of CAN issue, but at least the termination is OK.

If you were to change the IC expect anti-theft shutdown and code(s) for that.

 

Hey JagV8!

Sorry it took me a bit to write back. It's been a crazy last few days. I appreciate you confirming that I'm looking at the right things! Gives me a little more confidence at tackling this thing. I ordered a replacement cluster since everything seems to be pointing to it. Somehow I lucked up and found one online that was actually made the very next day as mine so all the software information shows to be a match :-). I plan on calling a few instrument cluster specialists tomorrow. Hopefully, one of them will be able to copy my immobilizer data from the old cluster to the replacement. Essentially, I'm hoping they can clone the old into the new so all I have to do is plug it in and go. I only have one key and really don't want to have to buy a key to have it programmed. The only other thing, I noticed that it looks like the relay for the reverse lights grounds through the cluster. I remember thinking it was odd that they didn't come on when I put the car in reverse. Do you know if the signal that the car is in reverse is sent over the CAN from either the ECM or J-Gate? That would make a lot of sense if it was. Anyway, thanks again for your help!

James

 

I don't know for your car but it's fairly like mine in terms of CAN etc - so look at the Electrical Guide as it not only has wiring but also a grid of which module sends what messages to which other modules (at the end).

 

Thanks for that tip! I read through that message matrix and indeed the reverse signal does come to the IC via CAN. I feel really confident that the issue is most likely the cluster. The only other thing that I could think of is if maybe the J-Gate or TCM could be corrupting the signal between the ECM and IC somehow. Could I simply unplug them and jump the CAN circuit on the connectors to see? I'm a little concerned about powering up the car with modules disconnected though.

I was able to install SDD v130 from a link I found here on the forum and get it up and running on a virtual machine so I went ahead and ordered a cable for it (I'll reinstall on a dedicated Windows XP laptop though). I actually ordered it from British Diagnostics (Andrew Jones) because I read that he actually tests the cables to make sure they'll program modules before shipping them out. Also, although I ordered from his site directly, he has a fairly good eBay feedback score so I felt I could trust ordering from him.

I hope that was a good move even though it cost me considerably more. I know it's risky to use one of the clones from what I've read about it on here, but unfortunately, I really can't justify investing the nearly $600 US it would take to get the actual cable from Drew for this car. I would of course feel more comfortable with a genuine cable, but it's just not really an option. On a side-note, I noticed you were from Yorkshire. My order receipt shows that he is based out of South Yorkshire. Just curious, but do you happen to know of him?

Anyway, I'm reading through the user guide for SDD at the moment. I'm not sure where I read it (may have even been a post of yours), but I'm thinking I should hold off on hooking up the replacement cluster until I get the cable in. Is there any reason to? I'm not 100% sure, but would I need to attempt to download anything from it first before replacement? I'm thinking if it's not communicating now, then it won't communicate with SDD. I know the replacement has to have VID information loaded so the car will recognize it, as well as immobilizer data, but if I connected it, and the problem was the IC being bad, would the ECM then communicate with it and resolve the P1638?

I know security lockouts and codes will come up, but I'll have to program keys anyway to the replacement. Do you know if I'll need data from the old cluster. I'm thinking no since I've seen references to program it as a new module. From what I understand, I'm thinking SDD would pull the VID info from other modules so it won't matter.

It's feels almost destined to be it since the cluster I found was literally made the next day as my old one. The only difference I can see on the label is the serial number and time of manufacture. I just don't want to act too hastily and cause unnecessary issues or do any unnecessary programming with that clone cable. Even though I've got an itch to go put it in lol.

Sorry for the long winded post. Thanks again for your help with this.

James

 

You really don't want to be doing anything like that at this stage (if ever).

Use it at most to read codes / access (read) module and sensor states. Don't do any reprogramming and don't connect a different IC.

If you go ahead doing the kinds of things you put and brick the car... you'll likely need a tow to a dealer - and they may have no-one who knows how to unbrick it.

 

Thanks for "slowing" me down lol. I really do believe the best thing is to at least attempt to read the car before considering changing the IC as you advise. I enjoy going all in to tackle a problem, but I really don't want to get too hasty and screw it up. I was originally up against possibly having to tow it to the dealer anyway. However, I REALLY don't want to do that. Especially if, with a little (ok, a LOT) of reading, studying, and learning, I have a chance that I could do it myself.

However, although the car looks fairly decent, I only paid $900 US for it. It is only worth, at best and running good, $2,000 US. I probably shouldn't have bought it as I am simply having to "trust" that the seller told me the truth, but I didn't real it was too much of a risk. I could probably sell it for what I have in it at worst.

That being said, I don't really think it would be worth investing in the genuine mongoose for this car alone. I do want to limit any kind of programming to a last resort, but in the end, if I can't get it back on the road, I'll either sell it to recover my investment or start parting it out. I hate to do that to a nice car, but as an investment, it's not really worth it. I would love to get it going though so I'm willing to try.

Thanks again!
James

 

In that case I'd get a clone Mongoose and read data - it'll take time but is hugely interesting if you like to learn

You're probably safe trying to clear codes from any module but reprogramming is a whole 'nother issue.

Do make sure you have the full workshop manual (free download) so you can figure what's what.

 

Hey Everyone,

I thought I'd follow up with how everything played out with this issue. It turned out that the instrument cluster was indeed bad. I ordered a clone from British Diagnostics, but it still hasn't arrived. I'll likely have to file a dispute on that transaction through PayPal. Anyway, due to a lack of communication with them, I ordered another one directly from a company on Aliexpress for way less including DHL air shipping and it arrived in almost no time (really surprised it was so fast). Then, I built a clean XP laptop and installed SDD v130.03 from the files available here on the forum. I read TONS of documents that I gathered from this and other forums and soooo many posts to essentially give me a crash course in "Jaguar Dealer Technician" training.. lol ... All in all, SDD was also unable to communicate with my old cluster. I then downloaded the VID block into the SDD session (took a picture of the data in hex, dec, and asc views just in case i needed it later). I then installed the cluster I bought off of ebay. I only had one key, so I set out to get one from a local locksmith.. his price was good, but he actually offered to sell me just the transponder chip for much less.. Very nice of him to do that. " I didn't have a top notch power supply, so I hooked up my other vehicle with jumper cables and monitored the voltage with the key on for a while.. it stayed well regulated and "in the green." I knew it was a chance, but figured it would be a better choice than my old unregulated, unfiltered battery charger. Now off to try to program... I had to trick sdd to show me extras by giving it symptoms of message center indicating powertrain issues.. I ran the "configure new module-instrument pack" option, chose automatic and it was simply follow directionseach step of the way until viola.. had to cover existing key with aluminum foil to block its chip signal when programming the second "key." It took a couple tries with that part.. had to find just the right place to stick the chip so the pick-up could read it. Once it we done, closed down sdd and unhooked the cable. Turned the key and fired right up!!!! I can't tell everyone how much I appreciate the help I've gotten from this forum--both this thread and others I read through. I did read somewhere a series of steps to connect to the car that makes the clones work better (or at least that's what they say). First, plug in usb, next, launch SDD, then once cable is green, then connect to OBD port. That worked well for me. Hope that helps someone.

Thanks again!!

James

 

Well done!