X-Type ( X400 ) 2001 - 2009
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2003 X-Type will not turn off

 
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:24 AM
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Default 2003 X-Type will not turn off

Hi All, hopefully 1 or 2 of you can help to untangle my brain.

I recently acquired a 2003 X-Type, which will not turn off. Turn key off and remove it from ignition, all dash lights remain on.

It also will not start, presumable because of the single-try provision - it needs to be turned off first...?

I'm told the problem cropped up literally overnight, the car was turned off and parked normally in the garage, and was found the next morning with lights on.

Disconnecting the battery does not reset the system - when battery is re-connected, even with key out, all lights are on, and the car cannot be started.

I have tried disconnecting the ignition switch, but the power remains on, even with the switch disconnected. Is it possible that the ignition circuit has a relay which requires power applied to it to disconnect the main power circuit?

Thanks for any help/suggestions.

judas
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:48 AM
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juda5, welcome to the Forums. Lots of good information here and lots of people willing to assist. But ,we do ask a small thing from you. Please stop by the New Member Section and tell us a little bit about yourself and why you got into Jaguars. We pride ourselves in being a better car club and as part of this, we like to get to know one another. This will also give you a chance to meet those that make this place what it is.

As for your problem, yes, there is a relay that is the main power for most of the car. I don't have the diagrams in front of me (I'm at work), but let me get back to the diagrams and I will give you a simple check to do to verify if this relay is bad. From the sounds of things, this is going to be your issue.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:45 PM
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Juda5, open up the hood/bonnet of your car and locate the engine bay fuse box. From there, locate relay R4. This is the relay that is most likely giving you a hard time. next to it is relay R3. Pull out these 2 relays and swap positions. Did your horn suddenly start sounding. If so, then this confirms that the relay that you put in the R3 spot is bad. You can leave it out until you can stop by the local auto parts store to get a new relay.

If the horn did not sound, then return the relays to how you originally found then. Next, locate relay R7. Next to it will be relay R9. Swap these 2 relays. take a step back and see if your low/dip beams are on. If they are, then the relay that is in the R9 position is bad. At this point, you will need to pull the relay in the R9 position. You now have a choice to make. if you need to drive the car for a few days and there will be night time driving, then you will need to pull the relay from R1 and put it in the R9 position but this will disable your wipers as long as the relay is removed.. If you are going to run to the store to get a new relay but it is raining, then you will need to simply just pull relay R9.

If you still have not solved the problem, you will need to access the fuse box under the dash. You will need to locate relay R18. On the corner of relay R18 is relay R20. Swap these 2 relays. Did your dash blower just start? If so, then the relay in the R20 location is bad and will need to be pulled. At this point, you need to decide how bad you need the dash blower. You can drive a few days without it if you don't mind the temps inside of your car and/or you don't need defrost.

If for some reason this does not fix your problem, let me know and then we can take things further. How are you with a multimeter? Just trying to see how detailed I need to get with explaining where to put the leads of the multimeter.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:56 PM
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Thermo, thank you! This is excellent! I will try the above and let you know.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:45 PM
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OK - update and progress:
Relays R3 (horn) and R4 (accessory power) -- There is no relay in position R4 -- missing.
Relays R7 (EMS Control) and R9 (Dip Beam) -- These are different size relay, R7 is a Grey 70 AMP with 4 connectors, R9 is Black, with 5 connectors.
Relays R18 (Ignition) and R20 (AC Blower) -- I only have 1 of the 2 installed, it is the same Grey, 70 AMP as R7

When I connected the battery, the dash lights came on (key still out) and I could hear what sounded like a servo motor running somewhere under the hood.
Since I had no R4 to swap, I moved on to R7 -- removing R7 caused the servo motor sound to stop, but all dash lights remained on.
I tried removing ALL relays from both panels -- dash lights still on. I unplugged the ignition switch again - lights stay on.

I re-installed all relays, and swapped R7 for R18 (side note - R18 was quite hot when I removed it - engine had not been running, battery had been connected for 3-5 minutes).
With all relays (other than the missing ones) back in place, dash lights are still on, but servo sound has not returned.

At that point, I disengaged the clutch, put it in neutral and turned the key -- it fired right up.

So the good news is that I was able to drive it home - it will be much easier to work on at my garage.

Bad news is I still can't turn it off, and it appears to be in limp mode - it was a very slow trip home

I will work on sourcing the missing relays, and it seems prudent to replace 1 or both of the 70 AMP relays.

Does it make sense that it would still be on with all relays removed and the ignition switch unplugged, or am I looking for a short somewhere?
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:09 PM
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Posting year (yours is pre 2004+), fuel type, transmission, etc will help
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:55 AM
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That makes sense -- I've added it to my signature, but it is a 2003 X-Type with a 2.5.litre gas engine, and a 5-speed.
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:32 AM
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Juda5, let me look things over in the diagrams and see what I can find. You missing those relays is kinda interesting. Maybe looking deeper into what they power will shed some light on the situation.
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:06 PM
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juda5, you should only have relay R4 if your car was equipped from the factory with a trailer tow package. So, odds are, that one should be blank.

When you say that the dash lights are on, are the on at full intensity or are they on in a dimmed state? If they are on in a dimmed state, then I am willing to say that your headlight switch has an internal fault and that is allowing the dimmer switch to keep the dash lights illuminated. If they are on at full intensity, then disconnect the plug off of the back of the headlight switch. Are the dash lights still on? If no, then you have a bad headlight switch and that will need to be replaced (of note, there are 3 different variations, if you have questions, let me know). If the dash lights remain on, then we have a hard fault that is keeping power on the dash lights. Let me know and we can take things from there.

As for car not starting, I would say to replace the R7 relay just because and see what you have at that point.

As for relay R20, you should have that in your car. If you don't, then 1 of 2 situations are present: 1) you don't have a dash blower, or 2) someone has rewired the car and forced the dash fan to not have a relay. Relay R20 is needed for both possible A/C-Heater setups in the car. For you not to have that relay makes me wonder.

On a side note: Has any work been done to the car just before all this started? Some times this can help guide me towards the faulty location.
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:41 PM
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Thermo, so far as I am aware, no work was done prior to the problem occurring. However, the car was taken to a mechanic, who was unable to fix it. I suspect he removed the missing relays for diagnostic, and forgot to replace them...? So far as I know, no parts have been replaced.

To clarify what I mean by dash lights on -- it is not just the dashboard illumination that stays on, it is all of the indicator lights. Also the engine does not turn off when the key is turned to the off position and removed, it keeps running. I have to pop the clutch with my foot on the brake to turn the motor off. It is as though the ignition switch no longer has an 'off' position.

What I did today -- removed relay from R3 and put in R4. Connected battery. No lights came on, car remained off. Started car, no red 'limp mode' indicator. Took it for a short drive, everything seems to work well (other than the horn and the blower, because missing relays.)

When I got back to the garage, it once again would not turn off. After stopping the engine via the clutch, it would not re-start.

I disconnected and re-connected the battery -- at which point I noticed that the servo sound is back -- I traced it to the black plastic controller on the side of the intake. This seems to correspond with relay R7.

With battery disconnected, I removed R7, R4, and disconnected the ignition switch. I reconnected all, and once again no servo sound. Dash lights and indicators are on, but car starts when key is turned.

Sadly, that was the last of my good luch for the day -- after turning the car off again, I was unable to get it to restart, even after disconnecting and reconnecting all several times.

I statically tested the R7 relay to make sure that it was not stuck on, and swapped it with the similar relay from the interior fuze panel (R18, I think?), but every time I connected the battery, I would hear the throttle servo sart runnning, and be unable to start the car.

Last thing I did was unplug the throttle servo, then connect the battery. Once the battery was connected, I plugged the throttle servo back in and it did not immediately begin to run. At that point I was able to start the car, but in limp mode.

It seems there is some connection between the throttle servo, and being able to start the car, but I'm not clear why.

It also seems that problem is unrelated to the original problem of not being able to turn the car off.

Confusing enough for you yet?
 
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:18 PM
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Try pulling fuse #67 from the cabin fuse box, it's for the transit isolation relay.
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 05:37 AM
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juda5, the buzzing that you are hearing is the throttlebody servo motor. When they get old, they get noisy. So, I would not worry too much about that. The more and more that I hear you describe things, the more and more I am suspecting that you have a bad ECM. I would want to confirm with the diagrams, but it is sounding like the ECM is looping on itself and is not paying attention to the ignition switch. Unfortunately, to replace the ECM will require a trip to a mechanic (possibly a dealership, depending on the shop you want to use) as once you get a new ECM, it will need to get programmed to your car. This is not something a backyard mechanic can normally do unless you get the SDD software.
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 06:14 AM
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Similar problems have happened in the S-Types.

Have a look here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...nition-217004/

And here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...rouble-214690/
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:13 AM
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Cambo, I pulled fuse 67, and reconnected all relays and ignition switch. Dash lights are off, and the car starts and turns off normally! Great success!

Now, WTF is a transit isolation relay, exactly, and do I need it?

I am still short 3 relays, R2 - Windshield Heater, R5 - Power Wash Pump, and R21 - Battery Saver. I do not have functional Heater A/C blower, or interior lights -- everything else seems to work fine. I would have thought that R20 would make the A/C blower go, but I tried swapping it with another relay, still no go...?
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:20 AM
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Cambo, I just read through the 2nd link you posted, and those were exactly my symptoms. Looks like that fuse is completely unnecessary.

Thank you very much for your help!
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 03:30 PM
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Check fuse f80 for blower

Jaguar X-Type Fuse Box Diagram Fuse Diagram

Make sure you look at the correct diagram for your year
 
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Old 05-18-2019, 05:52 PM
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Dell, Thank you. I moved the relay for the Main Beam and Fog Lamps (R15) to the Battery Saver (R21) position, and now I have both blower and interior lights working (at cost of high beams and fog lamps.) Once I get relays to replace the missing ones, I should be all set!

Thanks everyone for their help!
 
 
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