FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
#1
11-07-2008, 10:17 PM
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FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
So removed my Transfer case today, after having drained it a couple days ago. (only400ml came out) The job is hard.... most bolts are just hard to get at. Nothing impossible, but each and every bolt took several attempts using a combination of wrenchesm sockets, extensions etc... and harly any of them could you swing a wrench more than a click of a ratchet, or one notch of a box end wrench.
Getting the exhaust off was the bear of the job, second was the rusty steel bracket for the cat con...
anyway... when I finally had the case out, I took it apart. and captured the remaining oil that was inside...
guess what!!!! there were still 200 ml inside. So we need to relearn how to get the right amount of oil in there.
OK so here goes...
the factory fill is 600 ml
if you drain it by removing the rear output flange, then you should get 550 ml out leaving 50 ml behind.
if you drain it by the drain plug, you will only get about 400 ml out, leaving 200 inside.
if you remove the case and take it apart.. you should get all the 600 out.
SO... whoever did what I did... and draind by the drain plug and somehow filled in about 550 ml, that means you put in about 150ml too much.
At this point I dont know if my oil leak was from the overfilling ( and coming out the vent ) or leaking from the RH seal ( or a combination of both )
Next is what I learned about the RH seal... I dont see any way to change the seal withou dropping the case.
McJaguar said he did it but he must have pulled out the link shaft which you are not supposed to do.
When you pull out the link shaft, there is a sharp snap ring at the far end, and it will damage an internal oil seal as you pull it out. The Jag manual is very clear about this.
The end of the transfer case that bolts to the transmission has an O-ring on and this keeps Transmision oil from leaking out,
the first part of the inside of the transfer case actually runs in Transmission oil. and there are a total of 4 seals that keep the TC oil and Transmission oil from mixing.
If you pull out the link shaft, then you risk a disaster of mixed fluid, and one of them gearboxed getting low.
Anyway..
I am pleased that I have it all apart, everything is cleaned, washed, and ready to put together. It was amazingly black and sludgy inside. I have a few chips on one gear. but not enough to make me do anything about it. I also have been able to see that my viscous coupling is in good shape too. I will pick up new seals for the case at the dealer on Monday. Then I can fill it with precisely 600 ml..
maybe for a while I can have peace of mind, and if the oil stops dripping on the exhaust, then I might even smell the jag interior instead of gear oil smoke...
Getting the exhaust off was the bear of the job, second was the rusty steel bracket for the cat con...
anyway... when I finally had the case out, I took it apart. and captured the remaining oil that was inside...
guess what!!!! there were still 200 ml inside. So we need to relearn how to get the right amount of oil in there.
OK so here goes...
the factory fill is 600 ml
if you drain it by removing the rear output flange, then you should get 550 ml out leaving 50 ml behind.
if you drain it by the drain plug, you will only get about 400 ml out, leaving 200 inside.
if you remove the case and take it apart.. you should get all the 600 out.
SO... whoever did what I did... and draind by the drain plug and somehow filled in about 550 ml, that means you put in about 150ml too much.
At this point I dont know if my oil leak was from the overfilling ( and coming out the vent ) or leaking from the RH seal ( or a combination of both )
Next is what I learned about the RH seal... I dont see any way to change the seal withou dropping the case.
McJaguar said he did it but he must have pulled out the link shaft which you are not supposed to do.
When you pull out the link shaft, there is a sharp snap ring at the far end, and it will damage an internal oil seal as you pull it out. The Jag manual is very clear about this.
The end of the transfer case that bolts to the transmission has an O-ring on and this keeps Transmision oil from leaking out,
the first part of the inside of the transfer case actually runs in Transmission oil. and there are a total of 4 seals that keep the TC oil and Transmission oil from mixing.
If you pull out the link shaft, then you risk a disaster of mixed fluid, and one of them gearboxed getting low.
Anyway..
I am pleased that I have it all apart, everything is cleaned, washed, and ready to put together. It was amazingly black and sludgy inside. I have a few chips on one gear. but not enough to make me do anything about it. I also have been able to see that my viscous coupling is in good shape too. I will pick up new seals for the case at the dealer on Monday. Then I can fill it with precisely 600 ml..
maybe for a while I can have peace of mind, and if the oil stops dripping on the exhaust, then I might even smell the jag interior instead of gear oil smoke...
#2
11-07-2008, 10:37 PM
#4
11-08-2008, 07:35 AM
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Posts: n/a
RE: FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
I did it all with only the RF on a jackstand, the other 3 wheels are on the ground.
It is like a week in the gym when you lie under the car and then get up 500 times.. my arms, and abs feel good....
It took me about 6 hours to get it all apart, but at least 2 of that - maybe 3 was wrestling with the exhaust. probably an hour on the cat con bracket.
To be fast you need to have your tools organised, and not be spending time searching for everything. This is critical to success.
Taking the case apart and cleaning it was probably another 2 hours..
I dont think an auto tranny would be any different, every bolt is on the rh side of the car.
Pics.. hmm.. need to figure out how to get my new website working.
I bought my family name domain as a 50th wedding present for my parents, and the idea is to have endless space to host pics.
I paid a guy to set it up but so far hosting simple pics is not simple. www.harling.ca
It is like a week in the gym when you lie under the car and then get up 500 times.. my arms, and abs feel good....
It took me about 6 hours to get it all apart, but at least 2 of that - maybe 3 was wrestling with the exhaust. probably an hour on the cat con bracket.
To be fast you need to have your tools organised, and not be spending time searching for everything. This is critical to success.
Taking the case apart and cleaning it was probably another 2 hours..
I dont think an auto tranny would be any different, every bolt is on the rh side of the car.
Pics.. hmm.. need to figure out how to get my new website working.
I bought my family name domain as a 50th wedding present for my parents, and the idea is to have endless space to host pics.
I paid a guy to set it up but so far hosting simple pics is not simple. www.harling.ca
#5
11-08-2008, 08:36 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
OK the pics more to come of the inside of the case.. if there is a request for that.
first the car on jackstands
now under the car - 2 pics
now my work bench then the exhaust parts
now the link shaft, RH seal, vent then the clip that will damage the inner seal, then the inside seal.
and here is a general pic of TC
first the car on jackstands
now under the car - 2 pics
now my work bench then the exhaust parts
now the link shaft, RH seal, vent then the clip that will damage the inner seal, then the inside seal.
and here is a general pic of TC
#6
11-08-2008, 11:06 AM
RE: FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
Bo:
Fantastic writeup. I am amazed at your organization and thoroughness on this.
I know. you are probably waiting for me to say something sarcastic.
Not gonna do it.
'cuz I really mean it. Nice job.
I'm thinking I may have overfilled mine as well, based on what you found.
And in the spirit of being nice:
I DID in fact, remove the link shaft.
That's the way my dealer says they do it. I did the same. So far, I've found no additional leaks from seals I may have damaged. However: I did not previously consider the inter-mixing of fluids if the seals between T-case and Manual Trans are damaged.
Nor do I know how I would check this.... since both fluids are PURPLE!
But since they're very similar fluids anyway.... I'll just wait and see what happens.
But I think I'll probably end-up in the same place you are eventually. I'm tired of the noise from the T-case. It howls until ya mash the pedal. Classic signs of burned gears.
Great Job Bo. And thanks for the pics.
Fantastic writeup. I am amazed at your organization and thoroughness on this.
I know. you are probably waiting for me to say something sarcastic.
Not gonna do it.
'cuz I really mean it. Nice job.
I'm thinking I may have overfilled mine as well, based on what you found.
And in the spirit of being nice:
I DID in fact, remove the link shaft.
That's the way my dealer says they do it. I did the same. So far, I've found no additional leaks from seals I may have damaged. However: I did not previously consider the inter-mixing of fluids if the seals between T-case and Manual Trans are damaged.
Nor do I know how I would check this.... since both fluids are PURPLE!
But since they're very similar fluids anyway.... I'll just wait and see what happens.
But I think I'll probably end-up in the same place you are eventually. I'm tired of the noise from the T-case. It howls until ya mash the pedal. Classic signs of burned gears.
Great Job Bo. And thanks for the pics.
#7
11-08-2008, 06:16 PM
RE: FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
Bo,
Now that you have the TC out and on the bench, can you see what prevented 200 ML from draining out? Is there a sump below the level of the drain plug? Can a hose be inserted through the drain plug to pull the remaining fluid out?
What about draining the TC per the JTIS procedure (removing the output shaft)? Is that approach worth the effort?
What blocks access to the fill plug (when the TC is installed)?
Thanks for the pics!!
Mark
Now that you have the TC out and on the bench, can you see what prevented 200 ML from draining out? Is there a sump below the level of the drain plug? Can a hose be inserted through the drain plug to pull the remaining fluid out?
What about draining the TC per the JTIS procedure (removing the output shaft)? Is that approach worth the effort?
What blocks access to the fill plug (when the TC is installed)?
Thanks for the pics!!
Mark
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#8
11-08-2008, 07:54 PM
#9
11-08-2008, 08:20 PM
#10
11-10-2008, 09:59 PM
RE: FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
bo did you ever determine if the rh seal was truly leaking? this sounds a lot like the mysterious leak that began *following* my drain/refill with somewhere between 550/600 ml. maybe just maybe it's still venting overfilled fluid even after 5 months?!
#11
11-11-2008, 06:49 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
I guess I dont know where the oil was leaking from.
The vent is exactly right over the RH seal, and anthing that drips there will be flung around by the spinning RH shaft.
I was talking to the dealer parts guy about this. He said that they have never drained the TC by removing the rear output like you are supposed to.
He said that they have tons of leaking transfer cases.
Since the techs dont want to admit they did anything wrong (that is normal) They often change the RH seal. AND the vent.
The techs claim the vent is blocked, and that lets pressure build up and wrecks the seal.
From an engineering standpoint, I find that story really difficult to swallow. The vent is a very simple design and I dont see how it can clog.
Long story short.. yes.. it could still be venting oil after 5 months. .
The vent is exactly right over the RH seal, and anthing that drips there will be flung around by the spinning RH shaft.
I was talking to the dealer parts guy about this. He said that they have never drained the TC by removing the rear output like you are supposed to.
He said that they have tons of leaking transfer cases.
Since the techs dont want to admit they did anything wrong (that is normal) They often change the RH seal. AND the vent.
The techs claim the vent is blocked, and that lets pressure build up and wrecks the seal.
From an engineering standpoint, I find that story really difficult to swallow. The vent is a very simple design and I dont see how it can clog.
Long story short.. yes.. it could still be venting oil after 5 months. .
#12
11-11-2008, 07:43 PM
RE: FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
yup - i agree 100%. i think i'm fine -simply overfilled. your 400ml discovery makes it official. i think changing a vent and rh seal sounds very ominous....my tc case was dry as a bone (no leaks whatsoever) before the refill. i'm not going to touch a thing...
#14
11-11-2008, 08:54 PM
#15
11-18-2008, 01:03 PM
RE: FAQ Transfer case oil level error! oh no.. retract what I said before.
ORIGINAL: McJaguar
Bo:
Fantastic writeup. I am amazed at your organization and thoroughness on this.
I know. you are probably waiting for me to say something sarcastic.
Not gonna do it.
'cuz I really mean it. Nice job.
I'm thinking I may have overfilled mine as well, based on what you found.
And in the spirit of being nice:
I DID in fact, remove the link shaft.
That's the way my dealer says they do it. I did the same. So far, I've found no additional leaks from seals I may have damaged. However: I did not previously consider the inter-mixing of fluids if the seals between T-case and Manual Trans are damaged.
Nor do I know how I would check this.... since both fluids are PURPLE!
But since they're very similar fluids anyway.... I'll just wait and see what happens.
But I think I'll probably end-up in the same place you are eventually. I'm tired of the noise from the T-case. It howls until ya mash the pedal. Classic signs of burned gears.
Great Job Bo. And thanks for the pics.
Bo:
Fantastic writeup. I am amazed at your organization and thoroughness on this.
I know. you are probably waiting for me to say something sarcastic.
Not gonna do it.
'cuz I really mean it. Nice job.
I'm thinking I may have overfilled mine as well, based on what you found.
And in the spirit of being nice:
I DID in fact, remove the link shaft.
That's the way my dealer says they do it. I did the same. So far, I've found no additional leaks from seals I may have damaged. However: I did not previously consider the inter-mixing of fluids if the seals between T-case and Manual Trans are damaged.
Nor do I know how I would check this.... since both fluids are PURPLE!
But since they're very similar fluids anyway.... I'll just wait and see what happens.
But I think I'll probably end-up in the same place you are eventually. I'm tired of the noise from the T-case. It howls until ya mash the pedal. Classic signs of burned gears.
Great Job Bo. And thanks for the pics.
Second, I have an issue I wanted to bounce off of you and Mcjaguar because I seem to have same issue as he does.
My 03 3L auto makes loud howling noise. It peaks around 30mph then again around 45mph. At other speeds loudness varies linearly according to road speed and no noise at stop.
First I thought it was my viscous coupler. Then reading a lot and not getting any clearer, I read Mcjaguar's note on how 'burned gears' can make howling noise. So if this is the case, how do I verify it and what is the fix?
So far I've changed the transmission oil, transfer case oil and rear differential oil(thanks to the write up on the forums!). What do you recommend I do next?
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