Hi everyone! -Suicidal xtype owner-
#1
05-09-2009, 01:31 PM
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Hi everyone! -Suicidal xtype owner-
Hey all Iam glad to find these forums. I know how useful they can be. I am a member of the tlplanet.com forums and know what a great resource they can be with such passionate owners on them. Well my wife bought an 03 xtype 2.5 sport about a year and a half ago with about 65k miles on it. This 'car' has been a nightmare ever since. She decided to buy an expensive car to try and avoid the repairs her current car was facing. Any way I dont know where to start with the issues with this thing. I am also a trained mechanic and am very capable of making any repairs needed. I guess the biggest issue now is the rear alignment. The insides of the rear tires get worn off very fast. I replaced the front swaylinks that literally fell off and brought it to get an alignment. The shop said the rear camber is off the charts and there is no adjustment for it. Goodbye have a nice life. So we took it to the dealer which thankfully has their own rack and does alignments themselves. They also told me the rear camber is way off but there was no adjustment for it. There are no signs of damage. They cant explain it and want to start throwing parts at it starting with rear springs at 500$ installed with no idea if it will work or not. So while she decides if she wants to take the hit and trade this pile in or buy the rear springs for me to replace I am trying to find out what other options there are. Ive seen a bunch of stuff about rear sub alignments but the dealer didnt mention it to me. They tweaked the rear toe but said it still isnt right and the tires will continue to wear but maybe slower now. This thing is dangerous to drive in the rain as the rear tires are barley touching the ground. you can stand behind it and see both rear tires tilted in. the car currently has 82xxx miles on it. any ideas?? I cant keep putting tires on this thing for much longer.
I am sure our X Type Owners to help you out in here as well
#3
05-09-2009, 05:16 PM
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05-09-2009, 06:10 PM
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Hey all Iam glad to find these forums. I know how useful they can be. I am a member of the tlplanet.com forums and know what a great resource they can be with such passionate owners on them. Well my wife bought an 03 xtype 2.5 sport about a year and a half ago with about 65k miles on it. This 'car' has been a nightmare ever since. She decided to buy an expensive car to try and avoid the repairs her current car was facing. Any way I dont know where to start with the issues with this thing. I am also a trained mechanic and am very capable of making any repairs needed. I guess the biggest issue now is the rear alignment. The insides of the rear tires get worn off very fast. I replaced the front swaylinks that literally fell off and brought it to get an alignment. The shop said the rear camber is off the charts and there is no adjustment for it. Goodbye have a nice life. So we took it to the dealer which thankfully has their own rack and does alignments themselves. They also told me the rear camber is way off but there was no adjustment for it. There are no signs of damage. They cant explain it and want to start throwing parts at it starting with rear springs at 500$ installed with no idea if it will work or not. So while she decides if she wants to take the hit and trade this pile in or buy the rear springs for me to replace I am trying to find out what other options there are. Ive seen a bunch of stuff about rear sub alignments but the dealer didnt mention it to me. They tweaked the rear toe but said it still isnt right and the tires will continue to wear but maybe slower now. This thing is dangerous to drive in the rain as the rear tires are barley touching the ground. you can stand behind it and see both rear tires tilted in. the car currently has 82xxx miles on it. any ideas?? I cant keep putting tires on this thing for much longer.
Did you run a Carfax report on this car? Sounds like it got hit hard at some point......Weird it has no adjustments......Clean it up real good and Ditch it is my advice.....But most definetaly get another Jaguar.
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05-09-2009, 06:19 PM
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#6
05-10-2009, 06:57 AM
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Murphy, I would say to start wit the springs. You can get 4 new springs for the car for fairly cheap. If you can do the install yourself, then you should get away pretty cheaply. I would want to look at my car again, but I know there are adjustments for the rear end alignment near the center of the car. Just not sure if they are for the toe, caster, or what. The other thing I would be looking at is the joints in the rear between the spindle and the A-arms. If those are worn, you can see the same sort of thing. But, I would have expected the shops to have caught this.
The other thing you may want to look at is how new/old the upper/lower A-arms are. Because you have the first of a body year vehicle, sometimes there are differences in them compared to later in the year or the next year cars. I have run into this numerous times and may be able to solve your problem simply by looking at what parts are new and replacing those. I know it sounds silly, but having had to deal with lots of first year Fords (who owned Jag at this time), that is most likely what you are seeing.
The other thing you may want to look at is how new/old the upper/lower A-arms are. Because you have the first of a body year vehicle, sometimes there are differences in them compared to later in the year or the next year cars. I have run into this numerous times and may be able to solve your problem simply by looking at what parts are new and replacing those. I know it sounds silly, but having had to deal with lots of first year Fords (who owned Jag at this time), that is most likely what you are seeing.
#7
05-10-2009, 08:39 AM
I would start with a measuring tape....
If the car is at a dealer, they can measure the lenght of a spring on another car and compare it to yours, or check the ride height, this is easy for them to do, they can also lift the car up to the correct ride height ( if it is low ) and check the alignment with the body in the right position.
It is totally ridiculous for them to say they have no idea if it will work. amazing what some people will say!
suspension geometry is not rocket science. get on your back, lie under the car, and go through the individual suspension links and see what effect each would have if they were longer or shorter. inspect the rubber busing very carefully. Look for bent steel parts of the subframe.
The other thing about this whole post is that there are absolutely no numbers or data posted.
what is the camber? what are the other alignment angles?
Please MEASURE something...... post something objective, and not subjective about this. It is a geometry problem. Go back to highschool problem solving. Write down what you know, and what are the unknowns.... we all had to do this.
If the car is at a dealer, they can measure the lenght of a spring on another car and compare it to yours, or check the ride height, this is easy for them to do, they can also lift the car up to the correct ride height ( if it is low ) and check the alignment with the body in the right position.
It is totally ridiculous for them to say they have no idea if it will work. amazing what some people will say!
suspension geometry is not rocket science. get on your back, lie under the car, and go through the individual suspension links and see what effect each would have if they were longer or shorter. inspect the rubber busing very carefully. Look for bent steel parts of the subframe.
The other thing about this whole post is that there are absolutely no numbers or data posted.
what is the camber? what are the other alignment angles?
Please MEASURE something...... post something objective, and not subjective about this. It is a geometry problem. Go back to highschool problem solving. Write down what you know, and what are the unknowns.... we all had to do this.
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#8
05-10-2009, 09:43 PM
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Iam not trying to bash the dealer or the other shop. But those words came out of the service manager's mouth. They both checked and could not find any sign of damage, bent or broken parts. Its a mystery to them. He did ask me to see if I had a carfax report. I dont think she got one when she got the car. I could see it beeing from an accident but since both tires are doing it I cant imagine an accident in which both rear tires are bent perfectly like that. I can post both complete alignment reports if it will make you happy jimmy but what difference will it make. THE REAR CAMBER IS OFF THE CHARTS. And no ammount of high school problem solving can come close to a computer alignment. The only thing that is known at this point is that the camber is off and there are no bad parts. I found a site that has rear springs for 59$. I also though about making some shims for them and seeing if that would take up the sag. I may start there. And flash its much easier said than done to clean it up and get rid of it or i would have done that a long time ago. So Iam glad to find out its a geometry problem. Thanks for the news flash. Ill let you know when I can tell the difference between a square and a rectangle.
#9
05-11-2009, 07:53 PM
According to JTIS the specs for front ride height is 276 mm (14.8 inches) and rear ride height is 379 mm (14.9 inches). Based on a check of my 2002 X with 19K miles, this appears to be the distance from the center of the wheel to the top of the fender opening. Unfortunately, JTIS does not provide an acceptance tolerance nor does it differentiate between regular and sport suspension. I've read the sport suspension is the same ride height and also the sport suspension is a few tenths lower (perhaps others will chime in). I would think that your springs are OK if the ride height is within a half inch of spec or so. I've not heard of others having rear camber issues when installing aftermarket lowering springs.
If the ride height appears correct, then I would suggest (1) remove and inspect the upper control arms and bushings for wear, (2) measure the distance between the holes in the bushings, and (3) compare these measurements to those of a set of new control arms. The upper control arms (or where they mount to the spindle and rear cradle) appear to be the most likely cause of too much negative camber.
If the ride height appears correct, then I would suggest (1) remove and inspect the upper control arms and bushings for wear, (2) measure the distance between the holes in the bushings, and (3) compare these measurements to those of a set of new control arms. The upper control arms (or where they mount to the spindle and rear cradle) appear to be the most likely cause of too much negative camber.
#10
05-12-2009, 01:22 PM
Iam not trying to bash the dealer or the other shop. But those words came out of the service manager's mouth. They both checked and could not find any sign of damage, bent or broken parts. Its a mystery to them. He did ask me to see if I had a carfax report. I dont think she got one when she got the car. I could see it beeing from an accident but since both tires are doing it I cant imagine an accident in which both rear tires are bent perfectly like that. I can post both complete alignment reports if it will make you happy jimmy but what difference will it make. THE REAR CAMBER IS OFF THE CHARTS. And no ammount of high school problem solving can come close to a computer alignment. The only thing that is known at this point is that the camber is off and there are no bad parts. I found a site that has rear springs for 59$. I also though about making some shims for them and seeing if that would take up the sag. I may start there. And flash its much easier said than done to clean it up and get rid of it or i would have done that a long time ago. So Iam glad to find out its a geometry problem. Thanks for the news flash. Ill let you know when I can tell the difference between a square and a rectangle.
How much did she spend on the car? How much does she owe? Year and mileage?
If your replacing the springs you should replace the shocks while your at it.
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