Yes sadly wheel removal. I was all set to change my brakes had research knew about the need to turn the rears back in to compress the caliper every thing.

Than I put my electric impact on the front lugs and I GOT NOTHING!

The front lugs are not breaking for me?!? Here is a pic of what I'm dealing with:



Any suggestions of what could be wrong? Oh and back ground its an 03 3.0 x-type with 195K miles on it. Runs fine The only reason I was changing the brakes is they groan when you first start driving but the groaning goes away after they warm up.

 

Darth, I would say that whoever rotated your tires the last time did it while the rotors were hot, which would then lead to the studs being hot. This causes them to grow a little bit. So, when you torque them to where they should be, as they cool, the stud attempts to shrink, leading to very high torque values.

As I see it, you have 2 options.
1) drive the car, do a few hard braking runs to get the rotors nice and warm. Then, immediately drive the car to a spot that you can break the lugnuts loose (ideally in your driveway).
2) break out a big 1/2" breaker bar and an impact socket (19mm). Put the socket on the lugnut, put on the breaker bar and then add a cheater. Plan on applying about 300 ft-lbs of torque to get those puppies to move. So, if you start seeing spots as you are using the breaker bar, you are getting close, brace yourself.

If you need some other ideas, let me know. I have some background in torquing of items. Gotta love torquing things into the millions of ft-lbs.

 

Tighty righty? lefty loosey?

haha, I would put a proper long breaker bar and 19mm socket on them. Whoever started with impact guns on alloy wheel is a dork.... has caused generations of problems.

Clean, lubricated properly torqued wheel nuts/bolts should be mandated by law... what a place to screw things up (not like they are not important or anything!!) .. LOL

 

Thanks for the tip thermo I will try your suggestions. I was hoping to have this done by now cause I'm going on a 6 day work week for the detroit auto show.

I will let you guys know how it turns out.

 

Impact doesn't have the juice, mine goes to 450 foot pounds and won't break them free. I just use a 1/2 inch ratchet and stand on it to break it free, as soon as they move I move to the next, then lift the car and use the air wrench. Mind you I'm 240 lbs so.... By the way, go to your local parts store and get the little square gadget the fits into the groove on your caliper for ratcheting in the pistons, it will make your life a lot easier.

 

PLEASE tell me your kidding

What do they expect you to do if you get a flat?

 

Not kidding. I don't know what would happen if the POS wrench that comes with the car was needed. I use the torque gun to put the lugs back on and then give an extra tweek with the ratchet. But like Thermo said heat expands and I've always done it when the car was cold. I have had all 4 off twice to put on the winter wheels. The factory lugs are harder to get off than the crap lugs I use in the winter.

 

To tighten back up once you get them off, I recommend using a torque wrench and tightening to the correct spec. Most poeple usually over tighten the lugs way too much thinking they will get loose. I believe all you would really need to tighten is 80 ft/lb on each. The service manual should state the exact amount.

 

If you had used an would-be impact gun that runs on 12V socket yup they're all joke but an electric impac gun should have worked well .
I saw a battery powered impact gun managed to get loose bolts on a Volvo truck during dissection and by this logic an electric gun should have done the job by flying colors let alone barely
I am thinking of buying a Dewalt electric impact gun and inverter , why inverter ?
Because I will be using it on my car by using 12 V socket. (inverter does this job converting 12V Battery to 110/220 V that means you can use electric gadgets ) . And being electric power it will never get out of juice and electric impact guns are more powerful than that of battery powered ones .

 

Standing and bouncing on the breaker bar works for me 99% of the time. Occasional shin impact is to be expected.

Don't forget to check and re-torque if needed at around 100 miles after re-installation.

 

I dont for a second believe that you were applying 450 ftlbs of torque to the lugnut. From a technical point of view, the stud would have yielded.

 

I don't know, but it was at full tilt and the package says max 450 ft pds so......, It was one of those POS ones you get at the auto dept, on sale for less than 100.00. A buddy has all Snap on, and his would take the lugs off no problem. His is rated at 600+ though. I always say you get exactly what you paid for.

 

Sport30, I will have to run a few calculations, but I bet you would find out that the stud is probably a lot stronger than you think. From what I remember, the stud is a 12mm stud, which would make the surface area of 0.35 square inches. Most studs have a yield strength in the neighborhood of 70,000 lbs/in2. So, that would mean to make the bolt break, you have to apply just shy of a 25,000 pound force to the stud. While I admit that the 450 ft-lb torque is going to be close (initial calculation is around 21,000 pounds of force), I think the stud will handle it just fine. Now, would I recommend going out and hitting pot holes in addition to that high of a torque value. No way.

 

I've had three OE lugnuts seize on the studs after first loosening them by maybe one turn or less. I had to snap off those studs using a socket and 1/2" breaker bar ~2 ft long. Wasn't easy, but it wasn't that hard either....no jumping on the bar or anything like that.

 

Thanks for all replies!

I decided to take a breaker bar and work to break the lugs on the ground one at a time. Started on the same wheel that was giving me hell and popped the cap of the lug off. Once I did that I better understood what I was working with and proceeded to break all the others off. The aluminum cap had seized and needed extra encouragement to come off. In all I had 5 lugs that well needed to be replaced.





And now my brakes are done and oil is changed. Dont feel like tackling the TC oil change I'll try that next week. Got today off and back on 6 days straight for the auto show.

 

Glad you were able to get them off. Brutal (one of the tech's here) had previously given this advice: "use a 3/4” socket, not a metric size, which will likely get stuck and have to be banged out. And don’t use the wrench that comes with the car because you’ll mangle the covers and crack the wrench.....yes it’s that much of a piece of junk."

I never cease to be amazed by stupid little idiosynchracies of the X-Type. Who was the idiot that thought those stupid chromed covers were a good idea?

When I wanted to take my wheels off to rotate them, my bolts were seized too. I took the car to a local tire place and had them deal with breaking them loose. I figured they had the equipment and replacement parts in stock to not leave me stranded (which wouldn't have been the case if I'd done it in my driveway).

After the tires were rotated, I put anti-seize compound on all of the stud threads before hand torquing the bolts back on. Hopefully that will make wheel removal easier in the future.

 

Darth you should get the solid chrome wheel nuts, check the for sale section for a good deal!

 

...or these from NAPA. Only $2.51 each! (they're for a Lincoln LS)

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+50040+2040018

 

Well I abhor the alloy rims that are currently on the car. Just want to get thru the winter and I plan on getting some chrome rims come spring.

Any Chrome rims in the for sell section? Or those sweet mesh grill uppers and lowers?


And to MarkC I keep forgetting about the crossover to lincoln LS.

 

frosty, I believe there is an upper and lower mesh set in the classifieds. jagxtype has them up.

I had some 18" wheels in there but I think they are going this weekend. Antera 323's. If they aren't sold, I'll PM you to see if you want them.