Powertrain and Check Engine lights are coming on—any ideas?
This is rather disappointing, but right after buying our used X-type (2006, 3.0), both the Powertrain and Check Engine Lights started to appear. We've taken it to a couple of specialists, and this is what they are telling us:
In addition, one of the shops recommended replacing the front struts and rear shocks. The car seems to handle fine and only rebounds once when you do the 'push down and up bounce test'. I'm honestly more concerned with the engine/trans workings than the suspension at this point, but I thought I'd put the question out there about whether this should be a concern…
- the powertrain light is due to a Torque Converter problem. They are telling us that the transmission will work fine for short distances (< 20 minutes), but as it heats up, will eventually fail. It's a $4500 job to replace the TC and service the transmission while it's out.
- the check engine light is pulling code #P0480, which means 'Fan #1 Controller Circuit'.
- is replacing the Torque Converter necessary, or might this be solved by changing the ATM fluid?
- is the Transfer Case something to be concerned about at this point? (no one has mentioned anything with that)
- what repair is needed for the P0480 fault code? Is it replacing the relay, the control module, or the entire fan assembly?
In addition, one of the shops recommended replacing the front struts and rear shocks. The car seems to handle fine and only rebounds once when you do the 'push down and up bounce test'. I'm honestly more concerned with the engine/trans workings than the suspension at this point, but I thought I'd put the question out there about whether this should be a concern…
P0480 is normally the FCM. To test turn off all climate control(s). Start car, lift hood, lean forward and look at fans. They should probably not be running on a cold car start. Now turn climate control to coldest possible setting (manual or automatic blower fans). Lean forward into engine compartment and you should get a face full of radiator fans (both) turning at max speed. If not, most likely FCM problem. I got my replacement from member Dr Dome who parts out X's.
As for "powertrain light", you need to pull and post the code for guidance. ELM 327 reader in the OBD port and torque phone app will do that for you. In all my years in this forum, I've never seen nor read a torque converter failure or problem. Quite a few other problems causing a "gearbox fault".
Struts-shocks = meh, I'd not be too concerned with the "1 bounce" test & no (yet) big indication of a problem i.e. noise, tracking, tire wear, squeaks, etc.
As for "powertrain light", you need to pull and post the code for guidance. ELM 327 reader in the OBD port and torque phone app will do that for you. In all my years in this forum, I've never seen nor read a torque converter failure or problem. Quite a few other problems causing a "gearbox fault".
Struts-shocks = meh, I'd not be too concerned with the "1 bounce" test & no (yet) big indication of a problem i.e. noise, tracking, tire wear, squeaks, etc.
It's taken a while to check into some of these items; apologies for the delay.
• The fans appear to be operating normally ('off' when the engine is cold; 'on' when the A/Cs are at max). So I'm leery of the P0480 code being the fan control module.
As far as the transmission problem/powertrain light, here's the story so far:
• Mechanic 1 (specializing in late-model Jags)—said it was the torque converter ($5000 repair estimate). They also theorized that it could possibly be the trans linkage, so they adjusted the linkage. It was not the linkage; the powertrain light came back on after a short while.
• Mechanic 2 (trans specialty shop)—said it was the torque converter ($4500 repair estimate). Something about it overheating and even though it's currently working, it was doomed to failure with continued highway driving.
• Mechanic 3 (2nd trans specialty shop)—said it was the torque converter ($1800 repair estimate). They pulled codes: P0706 and P0740.
Since all three shops told us that the TC needed to be replaced, we decided to have Mechanic 3 replace the TC (it also helped that Mechanic 3 said his mother-in-law had an X-type, and he loved the car—knew it inside and out). Here's where it gets interesting:
They pulled the trans, and found that it was NOT the torque converter, but was something internal with the trans (I'm not sure what, my sweetie spoke to the mechanic). They are currently rebuilding the trans ($3100 parts and labour). All of which is fine, except who knows if any of this was necessary? After all, three experts swore up and down that it was the torque converter, except that it wasn't. When I suggested changing the ATF, all three said doing so was a bad idea and could cause damage (I'll put this in another post).
As Dell G thought, the torque converter wasn't the problem. The hope is that the rebuilt trans means we can concentrate on having some of the other non-mechanical issues sorted out.
• The fans appear to be operating normally ('off' when the engine is cold; 'on' when the A/Cs are at max). So I'm leery of the P0480 code being the fan control module.
As far as the transmission problem/powertrain light, here's the story so far:
• Mechanic 1 (specializing in late-model Jags)—said it was the torque converter ($5000 repair estimate). They also theorized that it could possibly be the trans linkage, so they adjusted the linkage. It was not the linkage; the powertrain light came back on after a short while.
• Mechanic 2 (trans specialty shop)—said it was the torque converter ($4500 repair estimate). Something about it overheating and even though it's currently working, it was doomed to failure with continued highway driving.
• Mechanic 3 (2nd trans specialty shop)—said it was the torque converter ($1800 repair estimate). They pulled codes: P0706 and P0740.
Since all three shops told us that the TC needed to be replaced, we decided to have Mechanic 3 replace the TC (it also helped that Mechanic 3 said his mother-in-law had an X-type, and he loved the car—knew it inside and out). Here's where it gets interesting:
They pulled the trans, and found that it was NOT the torque converter, but was something internal with the trans (I'm not sure what, my sweetie spoke to the mechanic). They are currently rebuilding the trans ($3100 parts and labour). All of which is fine, except who knows if any of this was necessary? After all, three experts swore up and down that it was the torque converter, except that it wasn't. When I suggested changing the ATF, all three said doing so was a bad idea and could cause damage (I'll put this in another post).
As Dell G thought, the torque converter wasn't the problem. The hope is that the rebuilt trans means we can concentrate on having some of the other non-mechanical issues sorted out.
fvc, both of the codes (P0706 and P0740) deal with the J-Gate (shifter inside the car). Yes, there may be an issue with the tranny which is being compounded by the bad J-Gate, but do not be surprised if you still have some issues after the tranny replacement. Not trying to be a party pooper here, but that is what the codes are telling me. When you get the car back, I would take it for a drive and using your hand give the center console a few good hits and see if that light comes back on. If it does, then this somewhat confirms the J-gate issue. I do wish you luck and I want the shop to prove me wrong. But, we see these problems and this site specializes in this car.
On a side note, if you want a listing of all the OBD codes and some useful books (ie, the repair manual), let me know and I can send them to you and/or, you look up top, there is a link up there to download the repair manual. That manual has a lot of good information in it that will atleast allow you to know what is going on before you take the car in for a repair.
On a side note, if you want a listing of all the OBD codes and some useful books (ie, the repair manual), let me know and I can send them to you and/or, you look up top, there is a link up there to download the repair manual. That manual has a lot of good information in it that will atleast allow you to know what is going on before you take the car in for a repair.
Last edited by Thermo; Jul 26, 2021 at 08:08 AM.
I think the guru, Thermo, may be on the right track =
I'd also check and clean the transmission position sensor (also called a neutral safety switch).
P0760 OBD-II Diagnostic Powertrain (P) Trouble Code Description
P0760 OBD-II Trouble Code Shift solenoid valve C is turned ON or OFF by the Transmission Control Module (TCM) in response to signals sent from the park/neutral position (PNP) switch, vehicle speed and Engine Control Module.I'd also check and clean the transmission position sensor (also called a neutral safety switch).
Last edited by Dell Gailey; Jul 26, 2021 at 09:00 PM.
So... my sweetheart spoke to the mechanic today apparently, they found bits of the clutch in one of the fluid intakes. I will relay that the J-gate may need some attention. It is true that getting into Reverse is somewhat notchy. However, the Powertrain light only comes on after running a while (sometimes after 15–20 minutes, sometimes not at all) and almost exclusively at highway speeds. If there is additional work to be done with the J-gate, is that simply a matter of adjustment or would it involve replacing parts?
The repair manual and list of codes is an excellent idea. I'm not finding the link anywhere on the page, however. It would be good to have more knowledge about what should be done, when it goes into the shop.
The repair manual and list of codes is an excellent idea. I'm not finding the link anywhere on the page, however. It would be good to have more knowledge about what should be done, when it goes into the shop.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...qgBdbNcTDg-QEd
https://workshop-manuals.com/jaguar/...ins/page_2515/
There is a TSB for older models addressing this "gearbox fault" because of misalignment.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...da4QsI1sIKG4fi
https://workshop-manuals.com/jaguar/...ins/page_2515/
There is a TSB for older models addressing this "gearbox fault" because of misalignment.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...da4QsI1sIKG4fi
Last edited by Dell Gailey; Jul 26, 2021 at 09:24 PM.
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I have been lax in reporting back, but here's what transpired with the X-type:
We ended up having the transmission replaced with a used unit. The original one had apparently been rebuilt, had a crack in the case that was welded which somehow interfered with the internal workings.The shop took a video of it being disassembled and have been pretty diligent about getting it back to good working order (this was the third shop we took the car to—they not only liked X-types, they were also 2/3 the cost of the others). The warning lights haven't come on since and the drivetrain has been working perfectly. The shop replaced the fluid at 900 miles and said to bring it in again at 4K for a check-up. The J-gate is still a bit notchy, but it's not my car and I'm not used to its idiosyncrasies.
As of late, there is a whine coming from the engine bay, but that's for another post. (I think it's related to the PS pump, because it's also starting to make groaning noises when cold—much like me in the morning!) The suspension may need some attention as well since it's making some rumbley noises, however, my sweetie loves the car, and that's all that matters.
We ended up having the transmission replaced with a used unit. The original one had apparently been rebuilt, had a crack in the case that was welded which somehow interfered with the internal workings.The shop took a video of it being disassembled and have been pretty diligent about getting it back to good working order (this was the third shop we took the car to—they not only liked X-types, they were also 2/3 the cost of the others). The warning lights haven't come on since and the drivetrain has been working perfectly. The shop replaced the fluid at 900 miles and said to bring it in again at 4K for a check-up. The J-gate is still a bit notchy, but it's not my car and I'm not used to its idiosyncrasies.
As of late, there is a whine coming from the engine bay, but that's for another post. (I think it's related to the PS pump, because it's also starting to make groaning noises when cold—much like me in the morning!) The suspension may need some attention as well since it's making some rumbley noises, however, my sweetie loves the car, and that's all that matters.
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