Rear wheel Speedsensor ring failure Diagnosis & replacement
#1
07-10-2007, 07:10 AM
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Rear wheel Speedsensor ring failure Diagnosis & replacement
Info supplied by buckMR2........thanks Buck, now added to the FAQ section for all.
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Catrick (05-26-2018)
#2
09-21-2009, 08:05 PM
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Helpful Hints
1. When pressing the outer CV joint onto the drive shaft - do not push too far. If you push the circlip past the groove inside the CV joint and past the splines it will ruin the shaft and you'll be stuck replacing it. Hint: make sure you measure the length of the entire half-shaft before you dissassemble it. When re-assembled, the shaft should be no shorter than your measurement. If you forget to do this, err on the side of caution. A little longer is better than too short - the shaft will compress when installed and the hub nut tightened.
2. The nuts on the upper control arm and front control arm (called front link arm in Bob's article) are welded onto the frame (wheel carrier). I'm telling you this so you don't try to wrench off the nuts.
3. Don't bang the outer CV on with a hammer, if possible. First try to hand fit. Next try rubber mallet. If you must hammer the outer onto the shaft with a metal hammer, thread a nut onto the end. Otherwise, you will distort the threads and you will not get the shaft nut back on. If this happens, find someone with a size 22-150 die and a set of thread files. Grind off any "mushrooming" in the shaft end and then repair the threads.
4. An air chisel with a blunt chisel is what I used to easily remove the old CV joint from the shaft. Place the tip solidly on the on the star-like hub visible inside the outer cv (shown in fig 16 of Bob Bate's article).
5. The outer CV kit from the dealer includes a new outer grease boot and boot retaining bands. These bands are cinch clamp style and require a special cinch tool. I had this tool from doing plumbing work using PEX cinch clamps.
6. When I did this job, I had a problem with the front link arm outer bolt (shown in fig 6 and 7 of Bob's article). The bolt holding the link arm passes through a steel bushing inside the rubber bushing. The bolt was seized inside this bushing. When wrenching the bolt out, the nut moved instead and bent the housing. I was forced to chisel off the nut (welded) and cut out the bolt and metal bushing with an cutting wheel on a die grinder. I ordered a replacement bushing from the dealer for $20, a 12MM x 70 bolt and nut as well ($10).
Hope this helps you.
DK
2. The nuts on the upper control arm and front control arm (called front link arm in Bob's article) are welded onto the frame (wheel carrier). I'm telling you this so you don't try to wrench off the nuts.
3. Don't bang the outer CV on with a hammer, if possible. First try to hand fit. Next try rubber mallet. If you must hammer the outer onto the shaft with a metal hammer, thread a nut onto the end. Otherwise, you will distort the threads and you will not get the shaft nut back on. If this happens, find someone with a size 22-150 die and a set of thread files. Grind off any "mushrooming" in the shaft end and then repair the threads.
4. An air chisel with a blunt chisel is what I used to easily remove the old CV joint from the shaft. Place the tip solidly on the on the star-like hub visible inside the outer cv (shown in fig 16 of Bob Bate's article).
5. The outer CV kit from the dealer includes a new outer grease boot and boot retaining bands. These bands are cinch clamp style and require a special cinch tool. I had this tool from doing plumbing work using PEX cinch clamps.
6. When I did this job, I had a problem with the front link arm outer bolt (shown in fig 6 and 7 of Bob's article). The bolt holding the link arm passes through a steel bushing inside the rubber bushing. The bolt was seized inside this bushing. When wrenching the bolt out, the nut moved instead and bent the housing. I was forced to chisel off the nut (welded) and cut out the bolt and metal bushing with an cutting wheel on a die grinder. I ordered a replacement bushing from the dealer for $20, a 12MM x 70 bolt and nut as well ($10).
Hope this helps you.
DK
Last edited by dsk1000; 09-21-2009 at 08:08 PM.
#3
06-08-2010, 04:27 PM
Hi
I made my own reluctor rings, with drilled holes (instead of the original square ones), easy to fit and works perfect.
Cleaned from rust, spray painted with zink, fitted the rings with epoxy, to create an enamel like protection like the new original.
Fitted them 1-2 years ago, checked them last weekend. Still looks new.
Easy and cheap as long as you have the tools to make your own. Can also be baught of ebay, I believe.
Happy DIY
ThomasX
I made my own reluctor rings, with drilled holes (instead of the original square ones), easy to fit and works perfect.
Cleaned from rust, spray painted with zink, fitted the rings with epoxy, to create an enamel like protection like the new original.
Fitted them 1-2 years ago, checked them last weekend. Still looks new.
Easy and cheap as long as you have the tools to make your own. Can also be baught of ebay, I believe.
Happy DIY
ThomasX
#4
06-08-2010, 09:18 PM
The reason the reluctor ring splits is because your outer CV joint has had no corrosion treatment so the oxidised surface expands and causes the damage to the ring. The replacement joint kit with the ring attached will be of a later variety that has an enamel coating to prevent re-occurrence and costs about £70.
Reluctor rings on their own can cost about £50 and cost more to fit in labour as it will require to be bonded to the joint in the correct location plus you will have to factor in the cost of a new rubber boot, clips and grease (which come as part of the £70 mentioned above) as the joint will still require to be removed to fit the ring and none of those parts can be re-used. Then of course there will be no corrosion treatment so it will likely happen again in a year or so especially in areas with salt on the roads......
Reluctor rings on their own can cost about £50 and cost more to fit in labour as it will require to be bonded to the joint in the correct location plus you will have to factor in the cost of a new rubber boot, clips and grease (which come as part of the £70 mentioned above) as the joint will still require to be removed to fit the ring and none of those parts can be re-used. Then of course there will be no corrosion treatment so it will likely happen again in a year or so especially in areas with salt on the roads......
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lovemycar1 (04-01-2012)
#5
06-09-2010, 02:55 PM
Hi Buck
Actually, when I checked the CV joint was a lot more expensive than £70, more like twice the price, each. I also checked reluctor rings on ebay and as far as I can remember a set of two was a bit below £50.
As I mentioned I made my own reluctor rings, which was fairly easy, if you got the tools, so no cost there. I spray painted the cv joint with zink spray and fastened with epoxy. A year later or so they still look like "new", ie the same as when i fitted them. I checked them last weekend when I fixed the knocking noise, so I know that for a fact.
The car is used in one of the worst environments, the swedish west coast with a lot of road salt and a "cold" and humid winter period.
That's just my own experience.
Actually, when I checked the CV joint was a lot more expensive than £70, more like twice the price, each. I also checked reluctor rings on ebay and as far as I can remember a set of two was a bit below £50.
As I mentioned I made my own reluctor rings, which was fairly easy, if you got the tools, so no cost there. I spray painted the cv joint with zink spray and fastened with epoxy. A year later or so they still look like "new", ie the same as when i fitted them. I checked them last weekend when I fixed the knocking noise, so I know that for a fact.
The car is used in one of the worst environments, the swedish west coast with a lot of road salt and a "cold" and humid winter period.
That's just my own experience.
#7
07-20-2010, 10:40 AM
Hi
If you by "fixed" mean how I fastened them onto the CV-joint, I fixed them using a marine epoxy, letting the marine epoxy cover an inch or so to the sides of the ring as well to create as much rust prevention as possible.
If you by "fixed" mean how I made them, I used a lathe and a drill. First I made a strip of paper with X's, one X for each hole. Then I made a ring in the lathe, attached the paper around the ring and drilled a hole at each cross. Voilá.
It should be 32 holes evenly spread around the ring, each of a 4mm diameter. Outer ring diameter 87mm, make the inner diameter so that the ring fits your prepared CV-joint.
Good Luck
Thomas
If you by "fixed" mean how I fastened them onto the CV-joint, I fixed them using a marine epoxy, letting the marine epoxy cover an inch or so to the sides of the ring as well to create as much rust prevention as possible.
If you by "fixed" mean how I made them, I used a lathe and a drill. First I made a strip of paper with X's, one X for each hole. Then I made a ring in the lathe, attached the paper around the ring and drilled a hole at each cross. Voilá.
It should be 32 holes evenly spread around the ring, each of a 4mm diameter. Outer ring diameter 87mm, make the inner diameter so that the ring fits your prepared CV-joint.
Good Luck
Thomas
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#8
10-30-2010, 09:02 AM
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This article may fix my problem???
I have a 2002 Jag X-type 2.5 5 speed and have two remaining problems. One the ABS keeps popping up with an error, but with a code reader we see no error codes for the ABS. Second, my care will not finish its incomplete codes. All diagnostics are clear. When we monitored the car with a code reader (while driving) it showed zero miles per hour while all other performance was being reported.
Is the rear wheel sensor where the code reader (and auto computer) get the miles per hour. Without this input to the comptuer it can never complete its emissions tests since they are based on performance (speed being one parameter).
If this is the sensor then we can use the article and replace the appropriate sensor.
Is there any place to buy the sensor besides the Jag dealer, so far it is the only source despite others advertising they have it.
Last the article appears great, but the text if very small, where or how can I get a larger version?
Thanks in advance for any insight. Love my Jag, hate it being down. Actually cannot get its tags until it passes inspection.
Is the rear wheel sensor where the code reader (and auto computer) get the miles per hour. Without this input to the comptuer it can never complete its emissions tests since they are based on performance (speed being one parameter).
If this is the sensor then we can use the article and replace the appropriate sensor.
Is there any place to buy the sensor besides the Jag dealer, so far it is the only source despite others advertising they have it.
Last the article appears great, but the text if very small, where or how can I get a larger version?
Thanks in advance for any insight. Love my Jag, hate it being down. Actually cannot get its tags until it passes inspection.
#9
10-30-2010, 09:37 AM
Sounds like your code reader may not read Jaguar C (Chassis) fault codes.Most DIY code readers dont read all Jaguar codes.
The car itself starts reading DTC codes when the key is turned to Pos I.
To allow the car to finish reading the codes allow longer between turning the key from Pos I to starting the car.
If enough time is allowed then a P1000 code will be stored
A P1111 code means not enough time was given to read the codes (ie key turned too quickly from Pos I to START).
The car itself starts reading DTC codes when the key is turned to Pos I.
To allow the car to finish reading the codes allow longer between turning the key from Pos I to starting the car.
If enough time is allowed then a P1000 code will be stored
A P1111 code means not enough time was given to read the codes (ie key turned too quickly from Pos I to START).
#10
10-31-2010, 06:10 AM
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P1111
Nice insight, I did not know about the P1111 code. I am actually getting a P1000 code on the code reader. It is not completing tests that have to do with emissions (oxygen sensor, ...). I am out of town, so I can't provide the codes at the moment.
Since I reparied and cleared all of the diagnostics I have driven the car 542 miles. During that time the engine light has flickered on a couple of times, but no diagnostic codes. The ABS light comes on half the time, but no codes for the ABS either. The code reader I am using now has keys for the jaguar and reports fuel consumption and the like, but it may not read everything. My cheap code reader did not read near as much.
I replaced the front Brake sensors when I replaced the brake pads and rotors about 2,000 miles ago when I got a report of a front ABS sensor error.
I have been told that until the ABS brake problem is fixed and that it can cause the engine light to pop on, even though it is not an engine code. The engine light pops on now and then, but no dianostic codes. I did not do anything to the rear brakes or sensor. I also noticed once or twice (rare) my speedometer did not acknowledge my speed until I had gone a few blocks.
When we saw the code reader not picking up the speed for the car we assumed the computer for the car was not reading the speed of the car and that the same reading might be causing the ABS error.
With this background material any ideas? It seems like I have a problem in my ABS, because of the light being on half the time, but no codes. That may in turn be causing the incompletes to not finish. The car runs great other than a light vibration from the brakes when stopping when the ABS light if off. It feels like it is coming from the front wheels. Cruise control does not work when ABS light is on, but this is normal as I understand the system.
Your feed back is great and I do apprecaite it. Always difficult to diagnose a car from a remote location. I will get the incomplete codes, but I don't think they are the problem, just the result of a problem.
Thanks
Since I reparied and cleared all of the diagnostics I have driven the car 542 miles. During that time the engine light has flickered on a couple of times, but no diagnostic codes. The ABS light comes on half the time, but no codes for the ABS either. The code reader I am using now has keys for the jaguar and reports fuel consumption and the like, but it may not read everything. My cheap code reader did not read near as much.
I replaced the front Brake sensors when I replaced the brake pads and rotors about 2,000 miles ago when I got a report of a front ABS sensor error.
I have been told that until the ABS brake problem is fixed and that it can cause the engine light to pop on, even though it is not an engine code. The engine light pops on now and then, but no dianostic codes. I did not do anything to the rear brakes or sensor. I also noticed once or twice (rare) my speedometer did not acknowledge my speed until I had gone a few blocks.
When we saw the code reader not picking up the speed for the car we assumed the computer for the car was not reading the speed of the car and that the same reading might be causing the ABS error.
With this background material any ideas? It seems like I have a problem in my ABS, because of the light being on half the time, but no codes. That may in turn be causing the incompletes to not finish. The car runs great other than a light vibration from the brakes when stopping when the ABS light if off. It feels like it is coming from the front wheels. Cruise control does not work when ABS light is on, but this is normal as I understand the system.
Your feed back is great and I do apprecaite it. Always difficult to diagnose a car from a remote location. I will get the incomplete codes, but I don't think they are the problem, just the result of a problem.
Thanks
#11
10-31-2010, 10:21 AM
The P1000 and P1111 codes are ONLY to do with the time taken to turn your ignition from Pos 1 to Start.Faults do not affect these 2 codes.Eventually a code will show up, especially if its a reluctor ring that has just started to fail and slip occasiionally perhaps.
The front abs light can also be caused by a speed sensor wire which is available from dealers for around GB£10 (mine failed)
I think the reason you get 2 lights on the dash is engine ECU isnt getting a speed signal from one or more of the 4 wheels illuminating the engine light and the abs ecu recognisies a fault with either an abs sensor,reluctor ring,faulty abs wire,less likely faulty abs pump or faulty abs ecu.
The symptoms with the brake pedal sensation on yours are exactly the same as both when my rear reluctor rings failed at seperate times (problem 1st appeared in Scotland where more salt on roads and gradually worked its was south throughout the UK according to Jaguar) and also when my front abs wire failed (chaffed I think).Mine also sometimes stalled especially when slowing down for junctions,roundabouts etc.
If its a front wire you can turn the ignition on and if someone moves the faulty wire the dash light should extinguish.
The front abs light can also be caused by a speed sensor wire which is available from dealers for around GB£10 (mine failed)
I think the reason you get 2 lights on the dash is engine ECU isnt getting a speed signal from one or more of the 4 wheels illuminating the engine light and the abs ecu recognisies a fault with either an abs sensor,reluctor ring,faulty abs wire,less likely faulty abs pump or faulty abs ecu.
The symptoms with the brake pedal sensation on yours are exactly the same as both when my rear reluctor rings failed at seperate times (problem 1st appeared in Scotland where more salt on roads and gradually worked its was south throughout the UK according to Jaguar) and also when my front abs wire failed (chaffed I think).Mine also sometimes stalled especially when slowing down for junctions,roundabouts etc.
If its a front wire you can turn the ignition on and if someone moves the faulty wire the dash light should extinguish.
#12
11-02-2010, 09:12 PM
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Sensor wire
Thanks BuckMR2, I guess the good news is your car is breaking down before mine.
When you say front sensor wires, I assume you mean the wires that are part of the sensors on the front wheels? What you are saying makes sense with what we are thinking. If we can isolate the front sensors as the problem it is a easier fix. The dealer said they can be new and be bad.
If not we know what we have to do replace the rear sensor ring. Is it true there is only one sensor for the rear on the passenger side? I had assumed there was one for each wheel, but on-line I only see it being sold for the passenger side. I have not found a good source for the rear sensor except at the dealer $$$$$$. Those on-line tell me what they sell is not right for my 2002 Jaguar X-type sport model 2.5L. I kind of thought all X-type where the same animal except in the trim/options.
I am out of town and the guy working on my car builds high end racing engines for dragsters and race boats. $80,000 engines in pairs for off shore racing. He does great work, but the Jag is a beast of its own and seems to have its own mind sometimes.
Thanks again and keep the words flowing, we may get it running still.
When you say front sensor wires, I assume you mean the wires that are part of the sensors on the front wheels? What you are saying makes sense with what we are thinking. If we can isolate the front sensors as the problem it is a easier fix. The dealer said they can be new and be bad.
If not we know what we have to do replace the rear sensor ring. Is it true there is only one sensor for the rear on the passenger side? I had assumed there was one for each wheel, but on-line I only see it being sold for the passenger side. I have not found a good source for the rear sensor except at the dealer $$$$$$. Those on-line tell me what they sell is not right for my 2002 Jaguar X-type sport model 2.5L. I kind of thought all X-type where the same animal except in the trim/options.
I am out of town and the guy working on my car builds high end racing engines for dragsters and race boats. $80,000 engines in pairs for off shore racing. He does great work, but the Jag is a beast of its own and seems to have its own mind sometimes.
Thanks again and keep the words flowing, we may get it running still.
#13
11-03-2010, 02:33 AM
The wire runs behind the wing and is available from dealers (in the UK they are/were around £10 when I had my X type).I think it goes to the abs sensor but maybe someone on here or a dealer can confirm.The dealer shopuld be able to fax you a diagram of the front sensor and wiring.There is a sensor on each rear wheel as the car needs to know when controlling traction what each wheel is doing at any point.
#14
04-01-2012, 11:48 AM
I posted the following a couple of days ago
My wife’s 2002 X type 3.0 Jag has what we describe as a "frog" problem when she applies the Brake the car stops but the ABS frog goes on. There is no ABS or yellow engine light but some times while driving they go on but go off once restart car. I checked the Code and get P1000 and C1175 I know what these codes mean. I put all New Brakes all around about 4 Months ago without this problem showing up Then. At that time there was a C1165 problem, which I replaced the right rear sensor which solved that problem and got clear codes. (Past inspection) So I am discounting Brakes. before that time the ABS frog did not work at all. I believe the two problems are related but different. I am trying to understand the difference. My first idea is to change the left rear sensor but I think the problem is in the ring on the shaft (Or what ever they call it) becomes the ABS still works (to Much)
Any insight would be helpful.
It was suggested I look in the X-type fourm
I have reviewed your post and the Bob Batess artical (Very helpfull) in looking into the inspection hole on the left rear wheel I see a copper looking ring with small hight to the spaces (Or Teeth) then I did the same inspection on the Right side and found a ring that looks more like the Bates artical ring. My question is two fold. 1) what am I seeing on the left side is this some kind of ring or the remnants of a broken ring? should I replace just the ring or the whole outer CV joint? By the way thanks for that great Bates artical it is very helpfull
New to Fourm
gperna
2002 X-type 3,0
My wife’s 2002 X type 3.0 Jag has what we describe as a "frog" problem when she applies the Brake the car stops but the ABS frog goes on. There is no ABS or yellow engine light but some times while driving they go on but go off once restart car. I checked the Code and get P1000 and C1175 I know what these codes mean. I put all New Brakes all around about 4 Months ago without this problem showing up Then. At that time there was a C1165 problem, which I replaced the right rear sensor which solved that problem and got clear codes. (Past inspection) So I am discounting Brakes. before that time the ABS frog did not work at all. I believe the two problems are related but different. I am trying to understand the difference. My first idea is to change the left rear sensor but I think the problem is in the ring on the shaft (Or what ever they call it) becomes the ABS still works (to Much)
Any insight would be helpful.
It was suggested I look in the X-type fourm
I have reviewed your post and the Bob Batess artical (Very helpfull) in looking into the inspection hole on the left rear wheel I see a copper looking ring with small hight to the spaces (Or Teeth) then I did the same inspection on the Right side and found a ring that looks more like the Bates artical ring. My question is two fold. 1) what am I seeing on the left side is this some kind of ring or the remnants of a broken ring? should I replace just the ring or the whole outer CV joint? By the way thanks for that great Bates artical it is very helpfull
New to Fourm
gperna
2002 X-type 3,0
Last edited by gperna; 04-03-2012 at 09:20 AM.
#16
12-27-2013, 09:38 AM
"Tree Frog" noise from rear wheel area
I have a 2002 X-Type 2.5 with automatic transmission. I notice a slight "tree frog" sound coming from one rear wheel area (driver's side I think) that can be heard while rolling forward at speeds below 30 or so, gets louder if on a curve (left or right curve). Never goes away completely. Have never gotten a ABS light or other failure indication on the text alert display. No error codes have been stored.
Could this be my speed sensor ring causing this "tree frog" sound almost like a chirp as the wheel turns?
Thanks!
Could this be my speed sensor ring causing this "tree frog" sound almost like a chirp as the wheel turns?
Thanks!
Last edited by TomTom; 12-27-2013 at 09:44 AM.
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