So last August I attempted to replace my front lower control arms myself. It turned out to be a job I couldn't handle so I took my parts to a shop I frequent and had them install them for me.

About a month ago, I noticed a creaking noise in the front end. I took it back to the same shop and they diagnosed it as the driver's side ball joint. They let me have a look at it while the car was lifted. I noticed the boot was all torn up and the metal plate of this ball joint was very rusty compared to the clean looking ball joint on the other side.

I was very suspicious when I saw this, both ball joints should look the same as they were both allegedly replaced as a part of the new arms. I now think either:

A. The shop never replaced the driver's side arm (the passenger one was the one that was damaged) and simply kept the part that I gave them

Or

B. The shop damaged the ball joint on the driver's side when installing it and never bothered to do anything about it.

Either way, I am under the impression that a ball joint should last much longer than 8 months. I bought a new one on eBay for $30 and attempted to install it, but I and 3 friends/family members could not get 2 of the 3 rivets out no matter what we tried.

Now, if you guys were in the same position what would you do? I'm really leaning toward going into the shop with my receipt from the original repair and the new ball joint and telling them to install it for free.

 

I think it will be difficult to prove the shop is fault.

You could try talking to them and expressing your opinion but I think you will end up paying them to fit the new joint.

 

First off, my deepest sympathies! What an awful situation. In general, these are the factors you should consider:

The biggest hurdle you have is NY state law, the short of it which seems to state that you only have the lesser of 90 days or 3k miles to make a complaint to the DMV which licenses most (but not all) repair shops in NY state:
NYS DMV - (Brochure) Know Your Rights in Auto Repair

This may or may not be a show-stopper overall, but would probably mean that any complaint to that department would be dismissed.

Thus, any remedy is going to come in the form of either 1) working out something with the shop, or 2) filing a suit in small claims court.

The main counter argument in court or in an administrative hearing (DMV complaint route) that you have to the 90-day rule is whether you should have known the paid-for repair was not done. If this is the type of part that is visible that you should have seen, especially for you personally being the type who works on this, then it's a tougher argument to make. However, if this part is not readily visible by visual inspection without removing other components, and without access to a lift, then you can at least argue that the 90-days only begins when you became aware of the problem. In legal terms, this is a "tolling" issue (as to when the 90-days of the law begins).

You did mention that you have a relationship with this shop, and I very much like the fact that you have tried to come to an accommodation w/ them in terms of providing the part and asking them to do the labor gratis for the install/repair. You can definitely catch more flies with honey than vinegar. In terms of your approach, the main question is whether you can convince them that the part was "obviously" not replaced with the part you provided. Their paperwork (stating whether or not you the customer supplied the part in question), and even your paperwork showing your purchase of the part can be helpful to persuade them. This really comes down to how believable you are, and how honest the shop itself is. The fact that you are trying to reach a reasonable accommodation with them again, is certainly helpful.

I would also be curious if the paperwork states the mechanic who did the work, and whether or not the mechanic is still employed there. If they are no longer employed there and were actually fired, this gives the shop the opportunity to distance themselves from what was done (or rather not done) and the opportunity to fix the problem caused by a "bad" employee.

That being said, without being personally familiar with the shop or the attitude of the DMV or the courts there, this is probably the approach I would take in a similar situation:

1. Bring the problem to their attention and give them the opportunity to accept or provide an alternative resolution.

2. If a reasonable compromise (like what you offered, or something similar) cannot be reached, I would keep your composure, but make it clear the situation is totally not acceptable. If the have a stellar BBB record, you might allude to pursuing complaining to the BBB or the DMV.

If they come back with the 90-day rule (as I am sure they all have memorized and tattooed on their collective *****) I would throw them a curve ball, totally bluff / over-state your case, and mentioned that you've talked to an attorney friend/family member who told you that "actually... there's a tolling issue here, and the 90-days only applies to when you knew or should-have-known the repair was not done. And on top of that, as of this date, the work has not been done so according to the attorney, the 90-days has not even started yet." -- Again, this is really over-stating your case, and may even be mis-stating the law as to how it is applied by the DMV or the courts there... but you're not their lawyer, or a lawyer, and even if you were... it's totally legit to "puff up" (legal term!) your case. And reiterate you're looking for a reasonable accommodation here.

Honey backed by a bucket of vinegar. This balance is what is going to get you the easiest and best solution in my book.

It looks like NY state is a one-party consent state in terms of recording conversations:
New York Recording Law | Digital Media Law Project

If that's the case, you do not need permission to record a conversation that you are a part of. In such a case, I'd record the conversation to show how reasonable you are, and their refusal to accommodate you. And if you do know the mechanic, and they don't work there anymore, this is another thing you'd want to have recorded to find out why.

3. Assuming they don't provide you with a reasonable accommodation, you should find out who has the power to make that decision. You need to be dealing with a manager or owner. At that point, you could send them a certified mail, keep a copy, and the certified part counts as proof of delivery. I would not include a phone number, you want their reply (if any) in writing.

4. If you still don't get anything back from them helpful, I would in fact file the complaint with the DMV. I would argue the "bluff" points in your complaint. 1) you had no way of knowing the repair work was not done, and therefore the 90-day tolling has not started. And 2) regardless if #1, the repair work was NOT done, so the 90-days has not even started yet. That's at least enough to make the pencil-pusher at the DMV pause, and talk to a supervisor to find out if they can still reject your claim out-of-hand.

5. Assuming no luck, and that they dismiss your complaint. That's fine. You will get a letter informing you of such, and the fact that you have pursued your administrative remedies through the DMV, is helpful to have proof of. You'll be taking this to civil (small claims) court.

6. I don't even know if the vehicle is safe to drive in its current condition (without risk of accident, or more serious damage), or if not driving it is an option, but any further damage caused by you driving on this unprepared after you have become aware of it, would definitely be on you. You need to consider how long you can wait in order to get this repaired. Ideally, not driving at all is the best. You need to show though that you acted reasonably and safely, with the appropriate balance of urgency and giving the shop the opportunity to fix the situation. I would get several written estimates, and pick the lowest one and pay out of pocket to get this fixed. Make sure you get the mechanic to note whether the original part in question was obviously replaced, or not.

7. You'll need to file in small claims court. Don't be greedy, whatever you sue for you need to have tied to some actual cost that you paid. The costs you incur are best if they are costs you would have paid, even with no expectation of winning. Be thrifty and act like you are spending your own money, because A) you are, and B) you want to show how efficient and cost conscious you were, and not trying to inflate costs in anticipation of winning a suit.

8. You only need to prove 51%, to be more believable than the shop, that what you say occurred, actually occurred. And this is where literally everything I describe in #1-7 comes into play.

BEGIN LEGAL DISCLAIMER:

Again, this is simply how I would pursue it in the specific circumstances that I can imagine you are going through. It's certainly "a" plan. Only a licensed NY attorney can give you a legal opinion or legal advice. And to employ a car metaphor, only someone running on 3 cylinders would take anything on a public Internet forum as legal advice.

I'd definitely talk to an attorney and run this by them. But this information certainly gives you a great basis for a conversation starter if you talked to a volunteer at legal aid:

https://www.google.com/#q=new+york+state+legal+aid

I would get at least get a first and second opinion from a legal aid attorney though. If your workplace has a comprehensive benefits package, they may also have a discount attorney service available to you.

One thing I personally would NOT do is to agree to pay the shop to do the work, and then not pay. That makes you look shifty, dishonest, and in most jurisdictions it's very easy for them to get a mechanics lien. So I would definitely NOT go down that road short of getting advice from an attorney in writing to that effect.

Would love to know how this turns out! But for any questions you might have, you need to take that to a legal aid attorney at the link above.

END LEGAL DISCLAIMER

Again, my deepest sympathies. One of the reasons I came to these forums is to try to avoid finding myself in your exact situation. Not sure how many money is at stake here if you have to pay to get things fixed (a few hundred? >$1000?) but regardless...I hope this inspires you to at least pursue some legal advice, if not try and go the full nine yards with this.

GOOD LUCK!

 

Hi Emaraszec,

To note, excellent post by brainy smurf, Top Dollar!

I can only hazard a guess at your frustration and anxiety at this time and I wish you well as I have had numerous UNSATISFACTORY experiences with a lot of retailers and dealers, thankfully not to with my present Babe.
I would recommend you apply some of the comments from brainy smurf as he obviously is in touch with the legal implications for your area, but I would also add patience and an open ear to what this garage have to say for themselves and I would add that no garage likes BAD PRESS!
If they are decent and obliging as they shpould be regarding your custom and satisfaction, they should want to help.

I would go along and politely state "your case", expalin the surprise at the issue and amazement at exactly what you thought was done and your disbelief at the state of your vehicle NOW!

If the car is undriveable, ask what they can do to ease the situation and get youback on the road safely in fairly good time as you believe this issue to be their cause.

Emaraszec, if you are a trade union member or have a fancy legal friend you can talk to, I would advise them of your actions, with most trade unions you can get free legal advice and then speak to the garage.

To aid your case a photo or 2 of the control arms may help, but you may have issues with the timing of this case as its 8 months later?

I would only pursue this on legal grounds if you are absolutely positive that what you have said can be verified and you stand by it.

I am 100% convinced if you have a relative or a friend who is a policeman, or someone in a position of a certain standing ask him to accompany you (in uniform!)

Can they come to an agreement?

Above all, don't lose your cool, good luck and I am sorry to hear your anguish!!

Best Regards, Stu
If they are in denial about the situation, play it NICE and you dont have to react at all to any sign of refusal, walk away and maybe state you are seeking further advice, after all they want your custom!
If they don't then they don't deserve anyones' business at all, but then you will have to go further into this, keep us posted and make note of all the comments and keep any paperwork. Hang in there, Stu

 

Thanks for the advice guys, you both put a lot of effort into those responses and I appreciate it.

I stopped in today and stated my case, as I intended too. The manager wasn't there and they were too busy to fit me in so I'll be going back tomorrow morning. Seeing as how I already have the new ball joint, I would only have to pay for labor. But at the very least I expect a discount on the installation cost.

I can't see the overall cost being that much. They originally quoted me $300 for parts and labor, now that I already purchased the part it's purely labor. Not to mention I already did about half the work, they only have two rivets to remove that I couldn't get on my own then the whole thing drops right out and the new one goes in. Even $300 isn't a big deal for me to pay, it's just the principle of the situation that bothers me.

 

Thanks for the update Evan,

As a footnote, if you are out-of-pocket for any incurred expenses, I'd be inclned to keep reciepts or ask staff to write one?

I would try them again twice, then ask for a name and number and them to contact you?

If they do not respond, then you have ammunition to take it further, if you goog;le the garage and include "Bad service or poor reputation" or something similar, you may find a history of previous incidents and if it gets worse, you may learn a lot more and the knowledge will help you.

Googling "Courtcase" or complaints regarding the business or the owners name may bring up something too and playing detective may just add a little kudos (Thanks, JimC64, I love that word!!!), or weight to your case?

GOOD LUCK TOMORROW!!! Stu

 

Well, I got the price down to $97 from $300, but seeing as how I supplied the part it's not much of a deal. They're going to make the claim of it being a defective part and there's really no way that I can now get a replacement part. The control arms have a 1-year warranty but there's no way for me to rip the arm off my car, send it back, and wait for a replacement without not being able to drive the car for a while. Plus I already purchased the ball joint for $30 and likely voided the warranty on the arm in my attempt to install it. I guess I'll just eat it on this one...

 

Just in hind site did you check around this site to get info when you were trying to fix the job in the first place? If you didn't you are missing one of the best assets of this site!

I have even been helped when under my car so to speak.

Years ago when I had my first cat I had the unfortunate of running into a shop as you mention. They did everything for my wife's car and I knew nothing! It was an 82xj and a complete dream to drive when it drove! It got so many break downs with the wife I had to take it away from her and use it myself. But again I never did nothing of working on one but I taught myself quite a bit with books and reading on this site and one other I think.

Any how I got them charging me for work that had not been done and we had a good row with that. They will never touch my cars now!!

If I may when something comes up check here first and then go from there, also as you are in NY area I would get at least 3 quotes from different shops if the time allows.

Good luck to you!

 

Thank you but I'm well aware of the usefulness of this forum. The problem wasn't a lack of understanding of the job, it was a lack of adequate equipment to do the job on my own. Like I said, thankfully this wasn't a major expense, but I will probably never use this shop again as they have destroyed my trust in them.

 

Shops suck sometimes. In my opinion I would replace the whole control arm. You can get the control arms new for around $80. A good mechanic should be able to do the job in about an hour an hour and a half. I did my control arms this past weekend, not really knowing what I was doing... I kind of messed up the install of the first one, had trouble with the ball joint going in, but on the second one I learned from the first one and it went in almost easily... Had a little trouble getting the main bushing bolt back in, but got that sorted out after about 15 minutes of wrestling with it. I recommend putting the arm in the freezer over night, it is supposed to make the ball joint fit in easier, since the metal compresses in cold. Anyways, just a tip you might suggest to the shop. It wasn't an easy job, I needed to buy a few bigger sockets for the big bolts, but once I figured out how easy it fit in when it goes in right, all my mistakes on the first one were really unnecessary. I may have to replace that first control arm down the line in a few years if the boot fails. Kind of sucks but I guess that's what happens when I'm learning as I go.

 

i take it, when you took the lower arms to them they both looked identical, nice fresh black paint ,shiny nuts and ,new bushes etc,i cannot understand why you did not ask them where the new lower arm was that you supplied them with, and why they had not fitted it.but had the audacity to bill you for it. i suggest you take a photocopy of your receipt, keep your origonal, use the photocopy when you confront them, do not ask them to remedy this, lay down the law tell them there going to get the lower arm replaced either with the one you supplied, or a new one, fitted free, or you will see them in court.as advised by your legal advisor. PS mind and take someone with you as a witness.

 

I don't know the 'statute of limitations' but this post is 2 years old!!!!!!!!!!

Advise might be a little late?

bob