There's probably a clause in your lease contract that states what can and can't be done to the vehicle or has to be un-done before you return it. JLR has nothing to do with that... the lease is through Chase bank. They own the vehicle, not Jag. So all this talk about what JLR will do/care about doesn't really make sense to me. They're going to buy it back from Chase and re-warranty it under their CPO program and profit. I doubt they give two sh*ts about details like a tune, or whether you tracked the car, or anything. Just think about it... they CPO cars all the time without considering how hard the previous owner actually treated it, as long as the oil was changed etc.

 

Since 1999 I have returned 7 vehicles to dealers at the end of a lease. All of those vehicles have had ECU tunes. Audi S4, Saab 9.3, MB C350 etc. never had an issue. Cars all in excellent condition and driven with proper respect.

 

Well, that about settles this one.

 

Just my experience. Familiar story with many others. My dealer just did a ECU update as part of first years service. They did not mention anything to me.

 

Unless you are some type of special idiot there is no issues ever as long as you return the car in stock condition with normal wear and tear.

i return all my car with full tint still on them and stock tune back in place and never even been questioned as they just send these cars off to auction always.

So the debate should stop here unless we are talking about returning a damaged car or warranty claim due to a time, otherwise it is very cut and dry.

To each their own but please stop beating that poor dead horse over this.

 

Yup, we've returned cars with a front end and side accident with replaced parts etc documented on Carfax. No issues.

 

If they reflashed your ECU the tune may be gone. They would notice a tune when performing engine diagnostics.

 

Car returned to stock prior to service. Updated ECU program sent to VAP after service. VAP does new tune on updated ECU. New tune installed in car. Car runs amazing. Prior to any service or returning car for lease tune is removed. Takes less than five minutes.

 

Is VAP tune introduces mechanical concerns? No, their track record is solid. With this said, lets discuss legal considerations. I am not a lawyer.

You grenade engine with VAP tune. What happens?

Turns out, it is spun bearing. If they look for tune, and JLR is known to send techs to do inspection prior to signing off on major items, they will find VAP tune and deny warranty. You will have to fund engine replacement out of pocket.

Turns out, it is cracked block due to casting issue. If the look for tune, they will find VAP tune and deny warranty. You will have to fund engine replacement out of pocket. However, considering it is possible to demonstrate that casting has nothing to do with tune, you have non-zero chance recovering your expense, minus lawyer fees, via litigation.

More interesting, what happens if you return the car with tune, they don't notice but then it grenades on next owner. JLR will still deny warranty, dealer will have to pay (if CPO car) for it and may go after you to recover costs. So it is not just "at the time of return", your tuning liability potentially extends well past your lease terms.

 

Interesting. I know you used the word "may" go after you, but I don't think they would have much leg to stand on.

 

They would have plenty of leg to stand on. We live in a litigious society and it does not take much to sue and win.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebec...7s_Restaurants

 

I do not understand this discussion. It is illegal for a dealer to refuse warranty because of a tune. There would have to be damage to the car and be caused by the tune for them to be able to refuse. If the damage is caused by the tune then sure it is your own fault for installing it....... but Velocity AP also stated they stand behind their tune, whatever that might mean...... if you ask me they will probably try to wiggle themselves out of any help if they can as most would, but they have been around a long time so either they have solid product or stand behind it.

 

In practice, any damage to the engine would be attributed to the tune. If taken to courts, JLR will have engineers testify that any tune is operating outside design parameters and contributed to the failure. More so, the lawyers will point to the car manual where they explicitly warn you that any modifications will void the warranty.

When you tune any component you void your warranty on that component.

It can't be any other way. While Velocity AP knows what they are doing, there are tons of tuners that don't. With a complex forced induction modern engine it is very easy to blow it up. All you have to do is accidentally cause lean out on boost and you end up with spontaneous detonation grenading your engine while on dyno. It doesn't help, that at least on AJ133, cooling system isn't over-designed and you could get to overheat/detonation within single dyno pull.

 

Best go read your warranty policy, it has quite explicit and precise language on the subject. A dealer can and will refuse warranty on any modified or aftermarket part.

 

Not here in the USA. aS LONG AS YOU DONT EXCEED MANUFACTURERS ESTABLISHED MAXIMUM SETTINGS for your engine. And after that its a grey area.

Just because there is warranty language (even pasted on a breakable seal)...manufacturers cannot automatically void the warranty. Magnuson Moss has the protections.


Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 -- Still Applies.

• A reminder to everyone that the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (MMWA) of 1975 applies to all consumer purchases with warranties - not just cars. If you aren't familiar with this law -- read up. Many OEMs openly violate the statute -- we just confirmed with the FTC that it is illegal to place notices on products that opening the covers voids the warranty !

https://repair.org/legal-corner/

So there are hundreds of thousands of independent repair centeres and the entire Federal Trade Commission that would disagree with Mikey.

 

So naive.

 

You live in Canada, where the laws are entirely different from the laws of the Uniited States. So please stick to the Canadian advice, ok? USA laws are different and offer more consumer protection...its a fact.

You have yet to show one case where a USA Jaguar customer has been denied warranty for tuning their own car WITHIN MANUFACTURERS SPECIFICATIONS....I bet you can't , but I dare you to try!

Have you been in contact with Jag Corporate USA about this ECU matter and seeked legal advice from United States Lawyers? I have...a lot.

I've also spoken directly to the FTC about this, (they are on my side of this legal arguement), and now there is a unique case file where the FTC has supported me (on record).

I've spent hours if not days of research on this matter. The FTC and I have a file on this illegal policy, I'm sure the Repair.org and the FTC would love to see me win that case. (All we need is a few more complaints against Jaguar and the wheels start turning at the FTC).

You have shown no recent cases to prove your point.

Manufacturer Service Center Carte Blanche denial of warranty for ECU tunes has also gone the way of the Dodo bird here in the USA. The automatic denial of warranty by a Manufacturer who sees evidence of ECU tunes is clearly illegal her in the USA. A point can be made that Jag service center techs are inapprpriately trained to break this law, as they get taught by old timers and from old material.

We are NOW legally protected from this in the USA as the law states it is Incumbent on the Manufacturer to prove the tune exceeded approved specifications and directly caused a failure down the line. The law specifically states manufacturers MUST provide this proof in court....that this specific failure is ENTIRELY and SPECIFICALLY due to bad tuning parameters, or they are required to service the car by law.

It's a fact I can and will tune my V6 to the same performance level as that found in the F-Type with the same engine (400HP), without fear of breaking the law. I've told Jag Corporate Directly I'm doing this and they told me this is noted in the file they keep on me, but there is nothing they can legally or morally do to prevent me from tuning my own car within specs.

If they try and leverage the warraty angle with me, I will post the results of the lawsuit here, ok? ;-) As demonstrated by the repair.org quote above above it is widely known that " Many OEMs openly violate the statute", I suppose you're in that boat with them.

USA law supperceeds any warranty language, no matter what is written in the little owners manual. USA law superceeds and prevents Manufacturers from making unreasonable warranty restrictions in their little warranty books. It's only a piece of unenforceable paper, a moving line in the sand for lawyers to argue over. Just because the Manufacturer wants to restrict their exposure does NOT make that warranty language legal or enforceable.

Any reasonable moderator or judge would side with the consumer on this one as I'm not seeking to deliberatley harm Jaguar in any way, and am in fact excecizing my rights to repair.

 

Wrong on all counts.

Carry on.

 

It's very simple, really: the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act may indeed confer the protection Austin7 describes, but if your dealer claims your warranty is void because of a tune (or for any other reason), you will need to bring your dealer to court or to arbitration in order to argue that the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act precludes such action. That will likely cost you a small fortune.

 

Bingo!

The evidence that the ECU was modified (how and to what degree does not matter) is permanently recorded internally and cannot be deleted.