It doesn't go as far as Austin7 claims. If you tune the engine, you are taking it outside the design spec. There are some narrow exceptions that might fall within this act, such as applying F-type 400 factory tune to F-type 340, because all the hardware is the same, but these are exceptions and not the rule.

If you apply any third-party tune your engine warranty will be void and you will have to litigate, where you will need to prove that it isn't your tune that damaged the engine, to get JLR to pay up. They will put an engineer on the stand that will testify that your tune is outside design parameters of their engine. Since they designed the engine, they get to define these design parameters.

You might not like it, but this is reasonable stand. This isn't swapping nozzles in carburetor, modern engines are complex CPU-controlled systems with MANY adjustable parameters. These CPU controllers don't have idiot checks and will take ANY tune no matter what physical or mechanical limitations of underlying hardware.

For curious readers, horror story:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...aded-dyno.html

The engine was killed with the tune:
Mechanically, idiot tuner leaned out fuel mixture at 26PSI boost that caused massive overheating and detonation. Even without detonation that tune would have burned exhaust valves and melted pistons within 500 miles.

TL;DR - Forced induction engines are hard to tune.

 

well there are simply people that will find a wrong in a million rights to use as an excuse for irrationality. I give up here.

 

I don't have knowledge about US law, however considering the interest of OEMs to get their software under the DMCA I can only assume it isn't so clear that tinkering with the software is invalidating oems warranty. But I can also understand that you wouldn't want to risk fighting that in court.

 

(I've been through an arbitration with a Giant Auto Brand and won, took about 10 months and 8K, and one arbitration meeting. Got all the legal fees back, plus a very favorable decision from the mediator so I recouped all expenses. It was worth it to me, and my case may have saved a few lives in the process.)

Booklaw is spot on. So manufacturers will immorally throw out a defense "your tune killed the car", when I actually am using the tuning parameters they have already proven reliable on other models.

I'm very confident if Jaguar denies any warranty this will found illegal in the court of law, and I personally would love to make my case a precedent in the USA. So it is likely I would not accept the mediation judgement and I would effort to get it to court for real.

 

Geeze change the record already.

You cannot buy the Jaguar tune from Jaguar, only a copy from the aftermarket. What is so difficult about understanding that aftermarket parts don't have OEM warranties?

 

You are confusing the changing of software SETTINGS with the changing of SOFTWARE. Guppydriver would still using the OEM Jaguar approved ECU and back programming code, so the SOFTWARE CODE is exactly the same, and 100pct OEM.

Software is NOT a physical part, and the manipulation of software variable parameters in an ECU is absolutely legal. Record of a settings remap/ change alone is NOT PROOF that the user exceeded approved manufacturers' specs. And it is totally immoral (and Illegal here in the USA) for a manufacturer to carte blanche deny your warranty if they simply detect that the map was updated out of the service umbrella.

So He'd likely still be using the un-modified OEM software all along. Just the variables are manipulated to mirror those of a Jaguar Approved Tune for this exact engine platform. There IS NO AFTERMARKET PART USED, only Jags own hardware and software, and settings. Simple.

BTW1: I have in writing from Jag Corporate that an ECU manipulation "May" invalidate warranty. This is very different from "will invalidate your warranty". So at least at the corporate level they understand this is case by case management judgement call. I'm ready for the fight if there is one.

BTW2: If I put a bigger pulley or superchager on the car, or exceed Jaguars own limitations on the engine...it'd be an entirely different situation and I'd NOT EXPECT Jaguar to support these physical mods. So I'm not unreasonable.....

To bring this back to Guppydrivers inquiry....

Simply re-program the ECU to original settings before service or returning the lease, and you should be fine. A record of an ECU refresh alone on your lease is not enough for them to legally hassle you.

Caveat: Unless Mikey is your service advisor, then prepare for a fight. lol

So as always, your experience may vary, and if you have ANY qualms about defending your right to tune if nescessary, don't tune the car. You will likely get resistance from the old-schoolers like Mikey, who are working under the training from outdated service policies and old laws ...the corporate types will always side in favor of the Manufacturer, whether legally justified, or not.

Just don't tune the car to over Jags approved 400Hp for this engine and drivetrain, and I think you should be fine as that 400Hp tune still meets EPA regs and has been validated by the manufacturer. But I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, ok?

 

If I am not mistaken the Velocity AP tune brings the hp up to about 420.

 

Indeed.

416 hp ECU only tune.

 

Yes, directly off the VelovityAP website the most popular tune is the 416HP version, but the beauty of having a talented tuner like Stewart and crew is you can get a custom map at the 380Hp Jaguar XE-S settings, as well as a 400 HP tune if you want to emulate the F-type.

He is indeed a talanted tuner, and I'm sure he was even a little conservative with the 416 HP than he had to be, and all reports are excellent on that tune as a daily driving tune.

But you can stay within the bounds of EPA regs if you do the 400HP F-Type map, for example, as it has been tested and certified to pass in the USA.

No one wants to push the engine to the edge of the envelope, reliability is key. I'd be comfortable with all the above personally, from a reliability perspective.

 

Yes I have the VAP tune on my XE.

 

RaffiNJ,

What would you guess would be your 0-60 times and maybe even a quarter?

How does it compare to a stock M3, CTS-V or Audi S4 in your opinion acceleration wise. I mean does the tune get you AMG/M3/S4 acceleration times for tens of thousands less?

What's you conservative estimate? I'm dying to know.

 

Would be really hard to guess for me as I never really had any of these types of cars or even anything this fast. Stock car with 340hp can do a 0-60 in 4.5 seconds so my educated guess (together with couple other guys that know more then me) would be it can do about 3.8 or even 3.5 if driven properly ? I think there is guys here on this forum that could give a very accurate number, maybe someone like BigCat could chime in? or even the Velocity guys My friend from work does have an S4 with a tune and my car was a lot faster. However, his car is about 6 years old, so not sure about the newer models. M3 I think does a 3.8, a lot of AMG cars are around 4 second mark and up. You will pay a lot more for those models then the Jag with or without the tune. I was hoping to take it down to the track one day but have not had a chance to do so yet.

 

I'd guess with the velocity AP tune and really good rubber the 416 HP version should clock in at 4.2 Sec. The XE is still pretty heavy...

PAGE 10 OF Jaguar's "Passport to Service" aka ...why Jaguar is denying your warranty

'What is not covered......"Misuse of the Vehicle" .... including 'Racing'.

Small rant here: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...-we-do-189599/

Be careful about tracking your car. I'm sure there will be some a-xxxxxxx at Corporate that would love to deny your warranty, or if you run into "Mikey" I'm sure he'd deny your warranty repairs if he found out your car was on the track.

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/02/27/...id-race-track/

 

Would be a joke if they denied warranty for tracking the car. They ran an internal marketing campaign in the early days of the XE where they'd let JLR employees drive it around on a race track and compare it back-to-back with the German cars. They also did the Art of Performance tour where they let us drive the XE around an autocross track...

 

Found this......

There are similar bulletins for all markets worldwide and for all models of JLR vehicles. Previous version go back to 2008 or earlier.

In part it gives his information:

We would also draw your attention to the following statement from the Owner's Handbook:
'The fitting of non-approved parts and accessories, or the carrying out of non-approved alterations or
conversions, may be dangerous and could affect the safety of the vehicle and occupants, and also invalidate
the terms and conditions of the vehicle warranty'.
Where there is evidence that a vehicle has had an unauthorized power upgrade, authorized repairers should
send an email to waradmin@jaguarlandrover.com with known modification details and the VIN number of the
affected vehicle so that a Warranty restriction can be applied and shown in DDW. In the event of related vehicle
faults, customers should be advised to contact the vendor of the vehicle, supplier of the power upgrade or be
advised that they will incur repair costs.
Authorized Repairers must not be in any way be involved in the promotion, marketing, or installation of such
unauthorized power upgrades. Evidence of upgrade is almost impossible to conceal, even when original
equipment is refitted following unit failure. Any major unit failures suspected to be resulting from unauthorized
power upgrades will be thoroughly investigated and warranty payments will be withheld or withdrawn as
appropriate.


Don't know how much more clear the intent can be.

There's a guy in one other sections who bought a used Jag (unknowingly) with an aftermarket tune that had been removed prior to trade in. The unit somehow affected the gearbox as well. JLR and ZF are now involved and guess what, warranty denied.

Anybody still feeling brave and confident?

 

Thanks Mikey! However this is applicable only to UK dealers, as UK law is different than USA law ...here in the USA we have specific protections under the United States Magnuson Moss Warranty law.

Mikey, if you email JLR below, they will probably tell you this cannot be applicable in the USA in the SPECIFIC case of tuning a car up to its already certified and Jaguar Proven performance parameters, using Jaguars own fuel settings as top limits. (IE tuning the XE from 340HP to 380 HP, or the F-Type 400HP)) USA law protects us in this case. Let me know if they contradict this, and send me the response if this is not the case. This is all being archived in case there is a dispute, your internal JLR memo has been very helpful.

jlrcamp@jaguarlandrover.com


I assure you Jaguar knows laws vary country to country, and Mr Cockle deliberately limits the above memo to the UK dealer network audience only, this is clearly not a worldwide mandate.

This is also why this exact word for word exemption language Mikey quoted above in bold cannot be found in the 2017 USA manuals. Mikey is also based outside of the USA, so may not be familiar with the laws in the USA that protect us consumers in this very specific situation.

Tune a car BEYOND Jag specs, and you are on your own. But in this case there is already a Jaguar version / a publicly marketed and EPA approved maximum setting limit established at the 380HP level, on the "S" tune, the same car, engine and drivetrain are marketed and sold this way.

The specific conflict is that JLR cannot legally void your warranty in the USA based ONLY on the evidence of a previous tune, in a court they'd have to demonstrate you pushed the mechanicals beyond Jaguars ansd the EPA certified limits, and if you don't do that in the first place by not over-tuning the engine beyond 380, (or even 400HP like te F-Type), they'd have no case. But they might fight you, which would be a terrible customer satisfaction problem for them. Especially when proven illegal!

This is very probably why the internal memo published above very specifically limits the audience to the UK Dealer network...not worldwide.

They'd be wise to not pull that BS with me, I'll assure you of that.

 

Finally, if you plan to track your car, read this first...

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/02/27/...id-race-track/

And, if you want to help preserve your racing and modifications rights, check out this Legal Effort by SEMA to limit the EPA over-reach into racing. There is a letter generation 'bot that allows you to contact your specific representatives and send them a form letter that you can read and edit.

https://www.sema.org/epa-news?__utma...utmk=265697351

 

Austin,
There is no use explaining, he has his own agenda.

 

Straight from the Jag US corporate site:

Jaguar Owner Information

WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY THE MANUFACTURER'S WARRANTY TERMS?
Jaguar Land Rover Limited offers no warranty and is not responsible for any repair or replacement to the vehicle, part or accessory that is required as a direct result of:

1. Any modification to the vehicle, components, parts, or accessories, including any engine performance enhancement modifications, in particular, chip tuning, which are not authorised by Jaguar Land Rover Limited.
2. Normal wear and tear. Includes brake pads, brake discs, and any other friction related components. The list is not exhaustive.
3. Defects or damage caused as a result of the vehicle being used in motor sport events, or for any purpose other than normal, private, or commercial use.
4. Damage resulting from neglect, accident, flooding, or improper use or fitting.
5. Damage due to the failure of another part on the vehicle.
6. Damage caused during maintenance.
7. Failure to properly maintain the vehicle, part, or accessory, in accordance with Jaguar Land Rover maintenance schedules and service instructions.
8. Failure to use Jaguar Land Rover specified parts, oils, lubricants, or fluids during a warranty repair, or parts of equivalent quality during an authorised retailer repair.
   NOTES
   Failure to use oils, lubricants, or fluids of the correct specification may result in mechanical failure and refusal by Jaguar Land Rover to pay for any resultant claims.
   
9. The part or vehicle accessory covered by the parts warranty is damaged due to the failure of another part on the vehicle, except manufacturing defect.
10. Failure of a non-approved part and/or the failure or misuse of a product or accessory not recommended by Jaguar Land Rover. Additionally, any consequential damage caused by the fitment or use of such parts, products, or accessories will not be covered by the Jaguar Land Rover vehicle or parts warranties.
11. Any vehicle that has had its Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) altered or removed, or on which the odometer reading has been unlawfully changed.
12. Refilling or topping up with the incorrect fuel, e.g., petrol used instead of diesel, or vice versa, or consequential damage from misfuelling.
13. The vehicle, part, or accessory having been altered from Jaguar Land Rover specifications.
14. Use of fuel specifications or alternative fuels which are not approved by Jaguar Land Rover for the vehicle.
15. Use of supplemental additives and flushing agents for fuel or engine oil, unless specified as part of a Jaguar Land Rover service requirement.
16. The vehicle, as manufactured, does not meet the operational specification of a market for which it was not specified, including any legal requirements or penalties imposed by Government or other authority.
17. The effects of any vehicle modifications undertaken to comply with legal or local requirements of a market for which it was not specified, unless authorised by Jaguar Land Rover Limited.

There are multiple examples of this policy being applied on this very forum. Live in denial if you like.

 

Summary: believe what you want, interpret laws as you like, tune as you feel like, don't be surprised if an attempt at a warranty claim runs into trouble. Be prepared to litigate if that's what you fancy doing.