Also posted on the XJ forum:

So, I got my XJL back from the dealer. They declared the ride "normal". While there, they replaced my 1yr old battery, due to frequent "Low Battery Warnings". They also changed the software at my request to make the paddle shifters on the XJL work in "D" mode. They say the same can be done on 2012 XF also. It works fine, the only difference is that when you put the car in "S" mode the transmission gear indication displays in the left virtual gauge. With this software change when I use the paddles in "D" mode the gear indicator pops up in the smaller little circle on the right side of the pod where the normal "D" would be displayed.

After test driving the other 3 Jags, I got back into my "normally" riding XJL and was simply horrified at the ride. Now it is even more pronounced how horrible the vibration is. Not sure what the the test driving technician was smoking to declare this "normal". Needless to say the issue will have to be escalated.

So, lets talk about the other vehicles that I test drove.

2013 XJL - I certainly could not feel that the new-for 2013 suspension was any softer than my '12. But, the car did not have the vibration which made a world of difference.

2013 XF 3.0 - I was entirely impressed with the power of the supercharged V6. Plenty of acceleration power and INCREDIBLE gas mileage. On my way back to the dealer, a 5 minute (1 mile) city traffic and 42 miles of freeway driving produced 32.7 MPG. My V8, NA XJL on the way back did the same at 25.6 MPG. Huge difference.

The engine, while more than enough, does feel a touch rougher than the V8. The deal-breaker for me, however, was the good 3 seconds lag that occurred every time I smashed the accelerator to the floor from a cruising speed of 60-70 MPH. Can not tell if it was a unique transmission adjustment issue or, was it the "normal" lag that it would take for the supercharger to actually deliver the boost into the combustion chambers. The noise increased almost immediately as I smashed the gas pedal but, the trust did not come in for a long 3 seconds. That is unacceptable. My V8 XJL or V8 XF in the same scenario would take less than a second to deliver the acceleration trust. I must say, however, that at lighter levels of acceleration that transmission and the engine appeared to respond much quicker.

2014 F-Type. I must retract my claim from 2 days ago on the XK forum where i said that I felt cramped in the F-type. That was because apparently the "Low Battery Warning" on the showroom floor car did not allow the electric seat operation and it would not go all the way back to provide for sufficient leg room for my 6' frame.

Today, I test drove a top of the line V8 car with the optional sport seats and I had plenty of leg room, even though when my legs were fully straight the seat was at the end of its travel, pressing hard against the rear bulkhead.

The V8 F-type is both and animal and a fine car. Most interestingly, since I have ride issues with my XJL I was looking at the ride quality. To my HUGE surprise, I found the ride on 20" wheels to be smoother and definitely better than my vibrating XJL on 19" and even better than my V8, 2012 XF on 18" wheels. The steering wheel was rock solid and calm, no undue road vibrations or roughness coming through the chassis.

I started out with the exhaust cut-out activated and, I must say, that some 25 years younger I would have been impressed with the near completely un-muffled, sharp, unruly, back-spitting, crackling sounds. Today, however, as I leaned hard into the throttle on the freeway, I strangely felt the need to apologize to the poor drivers that I blew-by with that really LOUD and unruly exhaust. I would assume it could be the equal to a Harley Davidson with custom, straight pipes; music for some ears, super irritating for the rest of the public.

Luckily you have the choice to press a console button and close the exhaust cut-out, which immediately civilizes the car with a nice muffled sound and still more power than any sane person will use on the streets.

This is really the first convertible car I have ever driven and I realized that I was not the fan of verts. At 70-80 MPH the air turbulence was so loud and violent that conversation with the nice young sales lady was nearly impossible. The wind was tearing at our hairs more than what I would find comfortable. She did say that Jaguar officials indicated at their factory event that the coupe version would be available as early as the end of this year. According to her, people who toured the factory reported seeing a line of coupes being build.

The fully loaded V8 F-type stickered at $105K. We guessed that the coupe might sneak-in under 100K with the same options. I was VERY impressed with the car, it is a great toy and from my test drive experience would not be a bad or uncomfortable touring car for distances either.

Albert

 

Thanks for the review of the F type and the V6 SC XF.

Regarding the XJ, are there any other Jaguar dealerships nearby, that may be able to accommodate you better with the issue?

 

Did you have the windows down or up when you were going 70-80 on the highway in the F-Type?

I have noticed in my XK it makes a HUGE difference at highway speeds to roll both front windows up. A standard volume conversation is then easily possible. I was actually surprised first time I tried it as to how quiet it was.

 

There's also an optional wind blocker for the F Type similar to the Miata which fixes this issue. I'm surprised your dealer didn't fit this for the test.

My impression of the revised suspension of the XF and XJ for 2013 is that the initial ride is slightly harder, especially at the front, but wheel control is much better. I have the awd which must have stiffer front springs than the older cars for the additional 150 lbs of drivetrain.

The "lag" you feel should disappear if you select dynamic mode. What you are feeling in D is most likely fuel economy software. The new 8 spd is programmed to deliver very low fuel consumption in D.

Turbo lag and supercharger lag are completely different, the supercharger is already spinning up at correct rpm when you step on it. The supercharger engages immediately and the full boost available at that engine rpm is delivered almost immediately. I am unsure if the entire supercharger runs at correct speed continuously but pumps air around a bypass or whether, as in former times, there is a pulley clutch that engages on demand. I do know that boost pressure is regulated by bleeding excess pumping capacity around a bypass.

In all supercharged engines there is inertia lag from the inertia of the air itself but that affects naturally aspirated engines to some degree as well.

Remember that when you first step on the gas of the V6 you get torque delivered from a 3.0 litre engine instead of 5 litres. There is no way to eliminate that initial difference. The supercharged engine is just as quick as the 5.0 when roll on acceleration is called for, the delivery curve is different as you have noticed.

 

I did it both ways. Yes, windows up was better but, still far too much turbulence for my taste.

Yes, the windblocker was installed which further surprised me because I expected a much calmer environment.

Also, I tried Dynamic and Normal modes and the 3 second lag would be identical. I had owned turbo cars (still do) and know about turbo lag. This was the first Supercharged car I ever drove (besides the XKR) and the large lag was entirely unexpected exactly because I did not expect the SC to take so long to spool up. It was exactly the feeling I got with the XKR when the traction control was engaged and I would be trying to exit a corner with a good dose of speed. The traction control would kill my acceleration for several seconds. I don't think that was the issue here as traction control should not kick-in under straight line driving at 60-70MPH. Or, would it???

Like I said, when I needed just a slight acceleration, the lag was not there. But, when it was stamp-on-the floor, call for all out acceleration (typical emergency passing situation) the lag was terrible. Not sure if all 3.0 SC will do that or only my test drive subject.

Albert

 

HeyAlbert,

Thanks for the review, I did the same test drive at my dealership when they where promoting the F type. I really enjoyed the drive and maybe one day when the space requirements aren't needed, I can buy one.
FYI, I also had a strange vibration in my 2013 XFR that drove me nuts. Coming out of a SC, I knew it wasn't normal as the first tech, dealer had to look it stated, 2 days after I purchased her. I took it back last week and this is what the Vet tech found. Thank you Vets.

1. Replace LH, RH, Hub assembly and wheel bearings.
Diag play in both front wheels.
Parts: 1294 WJ4
Parts: 2595

2. Both front wish bone showing excess play.
Replace upper wish bone Left Hand.
Replace upper wish bone Right hand.

3. Cause: Factory in correct adjustment.

It took them a week to get all the parts but guess what??? the Vibration is gone and the car rides better. I never espected to have this type of problem with only 1800 miles on the odometer but atleast, I'm a happy camper now. Hopefully, you can get lucky like I did and get the right Tech. This guy went even further and found the left rear wheel was not balanced correctly. He balanced all 4 wheels along with a alignment.

On another note, I had the range rover L2, I believe its called as a loaner. It had the V-6 SC engine and I must agree with you about the lag in response to the go pedal. I got the impression that the lag came from the drive by wire system. The computer is slow to react to your demands. The V8 appears to be alot more linear with it power delivery. IMHO..

 

Delay in acceleration has also been attributed to the 8 spd not making up its mind quickly enough.

 

Thanks for the tip. I wish they would find causes for my issues like they did for yours. So many things that could cause such vibration from suspension parts to internal engine balance parts. I just made an appointment for tomorrow to my tire shop to be sure to have one more check on tire/wheel balances, roundness, before I take it back again to the dealer next week.

I will print your parts list out and make sure that they will be checking those suspension pieces. I absolutely LOVE the XJL, love to look at it, love to sit in it and HATE to drive it.

Find it interesting that you'd found the same lag in the 3.0 engine response. No worries for me, do not own the model. I purchased my wife's XF last year knowing that I preferred the relaxed V8 to a blown V6 in the 2013s. Still, for most drivers the V6 got good power and superb gas economy.

When I take the XF back for the 1yr service I will have to have them look at the suspension. While it rides well and handles well the alignments specs are way out. From my racing years I still own my alignment checking tools and the measured cambers and toe settings are just not right. One front wheel has -1.4 degree camber the opposite side has -0.2. When I attempted to adjust it for more -camber, realized that it was maxed out at -0.2. I would prefer something closer to -1.4 for the type of twisty terrain we live by. Hope they have different sized concentric camber bolts to equalize the two sides better.

Albert

 

Could well be the reason. My two 2012 Jags that respond faster still have the 6sp. On the other hand I had no complaints about the part-throttle acceleration response times with the V6, 8sp.

I also loved the fact that the 8sp drops the 70MPH cruising RPMs to about 1500 RPM, as opposed to about 1950 RPM for the 6sp. Many V8 engines, including the Jag, has a tendency for droning right around 2K RPM. While the XF and XJ are well muffled, at times, I still can barely detect the drone frequencies at 70MPH. If you install a free flowing exhaust on one of these cars, you will likely notice that drone more. It drove me bunkers with my XK with a free flow exhaust. Finally re-installed the stock one to make it go away.

Albert

 

I considered internal engine balancing because that what it felt like. It really became noticable when I picked up speed. I haven't really driven the car hard because of that break in period but that vibration just didn't sit right with me. I knew something wasn't right. I should have taken a longer test drive at higher speeds but since it was new and sitting in the middle of the show room, I didn't dwell on it. The tech I end up with also felt something wasn't right, even if the car is only two months old. He pulled all the wheels and check the for balance as well as the rotors. When he put the wheels back on, He notice play in the control arms. The guy who assembled my front end at the factory must have been having a bad day or is tools where out of spec..
I hope you can find out your problem.. Have them check your control arms and wish bones..

 

That was the exact crux of my problem. I also did not take a decent test drive. I worked on the deal, signed the papers and, just to make sure the car's wheels would not fall off, we took the XJL for a short 3 miles test drive, entering a freeway and exiting the very next offramp. As soon as we started our long drive home I could already feel the vibration. Who would have expected that on a brand new luxury car?

Lesson learned: request a long test drive, preferably an overnight one BEFORE signing the papers or, do sign BUT, make the sale conditional on an overnight test drive. Most luxury car dealer will agree to it. My Jag dealer has offered me a 2013 XJL for an overnight test drive just to see and experience the differences.

My vibration is worst at freeway speeds and, your particular repair issues would very well match with the symptoms. First thing tomorrow in the tire shop will be a check for free play in the wheels and control arms as soon as they lift the car.

Albert

 

Can't be a three second lag to downshift and accelerate. The car only takes under six seconds to reach 60 mph from standstill. Maybe a third of a second to shift and develop boost. If your test car took longer there was something wrong with it.

The reported vibration problem s most likely the main driveshaft, the Brits call this the prop shaft to differentiate it from the axle shafts. These are laid up carbon fibre tubes dynamically balanced with different weight nuts on the universal joints. My X Type and my first XF both had this issue. The X Type got a new prop shaft, the XF got the heavier "black" nuts to balance it. You can feel this vibration through the whole car, especially the driver's seat.

 

Next week's trip to the dealer will be the 4th one with the same ride vibration issues. So far, I got blown away by their test drivers, failing to acknowledge the issue. This time I will take the Service Manager to a test drive and hopefully the car will co-operate as the vibration seems to be somewhat dependent on factors I have not been able to identify. Driveshaft is high on the list of my suspicion, as well. Exactly as you stated I feel the vibration coming through the chassis and especially the driver's seat. That is why I will have the Service Manage actually drive my car, instead of just riding in it.

Albert

 

Over the years I have had the same symptoms 3 times, 2 were the propshaft. An XJ40 among them.

 

This seems to be one of the hardest things to do, Get the tech and the dealership to acknowledge the problem. It seems more ofton then not, They say, "Its Normal". The first tech I had, took my car out and came back 10 mins later and wrote on the work order.. " Could Not duplicate the customers concerns". I drove away from the dealership and could feel the vibration in no time. I started thinking, Maybe it was normal.. I'm glad, I got a Vet who really took the time to check the car, New or not.

 

Oh yes, on my cars they claimed it was not legal for them to verify my vibration which occurred at 80 mph and up. After I suggested then that they would have to go to Montana or Nevada where it is legal and that my roadside assistance was good for the lower 48, Alaska and all of Canada they decided it might be cheaper just to spin the prop shaft up to 80 mph on the hoist using a big drill.....problem fixed under warranty both times.

 

I truely agree with you. Why did you have to go through that in the first place? They should have taken your concerns and figure out something on the spot. I think in my case, The first tech assume that because the car was new, the problem was either in my head or I wasn't fimiliar with ownership of a Jaguar. It just couldn't be something wrong with it attitude... Ha.