Brake warning on...looking for recommendations
#1
09-21-2015, 06:15 PM
Brake warning on...looking for recommendations
So, the brakelight wear warning has come on, a couple calls have yielded $2,550 and $3,100 estimates which...is...umm...boggling my mind. Clearly because I live in Canada I'm both dumb and obscenely rich...I could probably accept that generalization but one of these things is clearly not true. I'm mechanically inclined though not experienced in brake work on anything aside from a motorcycle.
Here's what I think I know:
1. I understand that some car companies are specifying that brake rotors must be replaced when new pads are installed. The motivation of a service department to provide this recommendation is pretty clear from a revenue perspective. I also understand that what really matters is the wear rate of the pad/rotor combo and whether or not there's actually enough rotor remaining to remain safe and unwarped for the life of the new pads.
So, the question is, does anyone get away with running a second set of pads on their cars, front or rear?
Can I just pull out my digital caliper and measure the remaining disk thickness?
2. The pricing on 'OEM' replacement parts is quite variable going from the obscenely cheap ($50/rotor) all the way through the top end drilled rotors. I've been disappointed by basic OEM spec stuff before and don't want to install parts that are not up to the true Jaguar quality, but I don't really care to go into the performance range of parts. Can anyone make a recommendation on a manufacturer that's reasonable quality? I've read the posts on the forum but it feels as though most replacements are of pretty high end parts... EBC seems damned pricey, some Centric parts seem reasonable but beyond the OEM gets pricier.
I've had a look at JCWhitney and Rock Auto so far.
3. My reading seems to indicate that wear sensors go off at 75% or so, I'm a bit confused as to why I should rush out and replace everything when 25% of the brake life components remain. If I'm going to replace pads and sensors, screw it, I'll wait for something considerably closer than 25% remaining! In my case the car has ~60,000 km on it, surely there's 10k more? At $3,100 for a brake job that's something like up to $750 remaining to waste...
4. Aside from the wear sensors, I read one on the front and one on the back, is there anything about this job that should dissuade an amateur from performing it? Any tool recommendations, I have all the normal stuff, just no brake specific parts, a 9mm hex looks to be needed? I've seen one guide but any other resources would be appreciated.
Here's what I think I know:
1. I understand that some car companies are specifying that brake rotors must be replaced when new pads are installed. The motivation of a service department to provide this recommendation is pretty clear from a revenue perspective. I also understand that what really matters is the wear rate of the pad/rotor combo and whether or not there's actually enough rotor remaining to remain safe and unwarped for the life of the new pads.
So, the question is, does anyone get away with running a second set of pads on their cars, front or rear?
Can I just pull out my digital caliper and measure the remaining disk thickness?
2. The pricing on 'OEM' replacement parts is quite variable going from the obscenely cheap ($50/rotor) all the way through the top end drilled rotors. I've been disappointed by basic OEM spec stuff before and don't want to install parts that are not up to the true Jaguar quality, but I don't really care to go into the performance range of parts. Can anyone make a recommendation on a manufacturer that's reasonable quality? I've read the posts on the forum but it feels as though most replacements are of pretty high end parts... EBC seems damned pricey, some Centric parts seem reasonable but beyond the OEM gets pricier.
I've had a look at JCWhitney and Rock Auto so far.
3. My reading seems to indicate that wear sensors go off at 75% or so, I'm a bit confused as to why I should rush out and replace everything when 25% of the brake life components remain. If I'm going to replace pads and sensors, screw it, I'll wait for something considerably closer than 25% remaining! In my case the car has ~60,000 km on it, surely there's 10k more? At $3,100 for a brake job that's something like up to $750 remaining to waste...
4. Aside from the wear sensors, I read one on the front and one on the back, is there anything about this job that should dissuade an amateur from performing it? Any tool recommendations, I have all the normal stuff, just no brake specific parts, a 9mm hex looks to be needed? I've seen one guide but any other resources would be appreciated.
Last edited by wannajag; 09-21-2015 at 06:18 PM.
#3
09-21-2015, 08:20 PM
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So, the brakelight wear warning has come on, a couple calls have yielded $2,550 and $3,100 estimates which...is...umm...boggling my mind. Clearly because I live in Canada I'm both dumb and obscenely rich...I could probably accept that generalization but one of these things is clearly not true. I'm mechanically inclined though not experienced in brake work on anything aside from a motorcycle.
Here's what I think I know:
1. I understand that some car companies are specifying that brake rotors must be replaced when new pads are installed. The motivation of a service department to provide this recommendation is pretty clear from a revenue perspective. I also understand that what really matters is the wear rate of the pad/rotor combo and whether or not there's actually enough rotor remaining to remain safe and unwarped for the life of the new pads.
Correct. There is no need to replace the rotors at the same time you replace the pads if there is still enough meat on the rotors to last the life of the new pads, before the rotors reach the specified minimum thickness. In most cases the stock rotors should last for two sets of pads, unless you are using particularly aggressive pads. If there is still plenty of life left in the rotors just get them skimmed/machined, to remove any lip and get them nice and flat and even ready for the new pads.
So, the question is, does anyone get away with running a second set of pads on their cars, front or rear?
I've done this twice now, on my old XFS and on current XFR, both front and rear, with no problem.
Can I just pull out my digital caliper and measure the remaining disk thickness?
Yes, that's what I have done. But make sure you don't accidentally measure any lip.
2. The pricing on 'OEM' replacement parts is quite variable going from the obscenely cheap ($50/rotor) all the way through the top end drilled rotors. I've been disappointed by basic OEM spec stuff before and don't want to install parts that are not up to the true Jaguar quality, but I don't really care to go into the performance range of parts. Can anyone make a recommendation on a manufacturer that's reasonable quality? I've read the posts on the forum but it feels as though most replacements are of pretty high end parts... EBC seems damned pricey, some Centric parts seem reasonable but beyond the OEM gets pricier.
I've had a look at JCWhitney and Rock Auto so far.
I used Power Stop ceramic pads on the old XFS and Centric PosiQuiet on the XFR. In both cases they were a fraction of the price of OEM pads, more progressive feel (slightly less initial bite though) and a lot less dust. I would have used Power Stop on the XFR also but they don't make pads to fit the XFR brakes. I got the Power Stop pads over eBay from an independent US seller (can't remember who) and the PosiQuiets from Rock Auto.
3. My reading seems to indicate that wear sensors go off at 75% or so, I'm a bit confused as to why I should rush out and replace everything when 25% of the brake life components remain. If I'm going to replace pads and sensors, screw it, I'll wait for something considerably closer than 25% remaining! In my case the car has ~60,000 km on it, surely there's 10k more? At $3,100 for a brake job that's something like up to $750 remaining to waste...
Yes, the wear sensors go off when there is still plenty of meat on the pads, as you say around 25%. And when a sensor triggers you don't know if it's the front or rear one, so the only way to tell is to check both sets of pads. Sometimes only one "end" of pads will have got to 25% and the other end will have much more meat left on them. I have disabled my wear sensors and instead I manually check the pads once every 6 to 8 weeks.
4. Aside from the wear sensors, I read one on the front and one on the back, is there anything about this job that should dissuade an amateur from performing it? Any tool recommendations, I have all the normal stuff, just no brake specific parts, a 9mm hex looks to be needed? I've seen one guide but any other resources would be appreciated.
Nothing scary enough to dissaude an amateur, it's relatively straightforward.
Yes, you need a 9mm hex bit for the front caliper pins, and it needs to be a fairly long one.
Also, the rear brake pistons must be wound in not pushed in. You can get a special tool for this, or try your luck with some needle nosed pliers.
Make sure you have NOT applied the parking brake when you replace the rear pads!
Last but not least, the wear sensors can be reused if they haven't triggered, as long as you are very careful with both removing them and refitting them.
The front sensor simply clips into the top of the inner pad once it is in place, but with the rear sensor you have to insert it into the retaining spring before you fit the pads and spring. If in doubt, and you want to keep the pad wear sensors operating, get new ones.
Here's what I think I know:
1. I understand that some car companies are specifying that brake rotors must be replaced when new pads are installed. The motivation of a service department to provide this recommendation is pretty clear from a revenue perspective. I also understand that what really matters is the wear rate of the pad/rotor combo and whether or not there's actually enough rotor remaining to remain safe and unwarped for the life of the new pads.
Correct. There is no need to replace the rotors at the same time you replace the pads if there is still enough meat on the rotors to last the life of the new pads, before the rotors reach the specified minimum thickness. In most cases the stock rotors should last for two sets of pads, unless you are using particularly aggressive pads. If there is still plenty of life left in the rotors just get them skimmed/machined, to remove any lip and get them nice and flat and even ready for the new pads.
So, the question is, does anyone get away with running a second set of pads on their cars, front or rear?
I've done this twice now, on my old XFS and on current XFR, both front and rear, with no problem.
Can I just pull out my digital caliper and measure the remaining disk thickness?
Yes, that's what I have done. But make sure you don't accidentally measure any lip.
2. The pricing on 'OEM' replacement parts is quite variable going from the obscenely cheap ($50/rotor) all the way through the top end drilled rotors. I've been disappointed by basic OEM spec stuff before and don't want to install parts that are not up to the true Jaguar quality, but I don't really care to go into the performance range of parts. Can anyone make a recommendation on a manufacturer that's reasonable quality? I've read the posts on the forum but it feels as though most replacements are of pretty high end parts... EBC seems damned pricey, some Centric parts seem reasonable but beyond the OEM gets pricier.
I've had a look at JCWhitney and Rock Auto so far.
I used Power Stop ceramic pads on the old XFS and Centric PosiQuiet on the XFR. In both cases they were a fraction of the price of OEM pads, more progressive feel (slightly less initial bite though) and a lot less dust. I would have used Power Stop on the XFR also but they don't make pads to fit the XFR brakes. I got the Power Stop pads over eBay from an independent US seller (can't remember who) and the PosiQuiets from Rock Auto.
3. My reading seems to indicate that wear sensors go off at 75% or so, I'm a bit confused as to why I should rush out and replace everything when 25% of the brake life components remain. If I'm going to replace pads and sensors, screw it, I'll wait for something considerably closer than 25% remaining! In my case the car has ~60,000 km on it, surely there's 10k more? At $3,100 for a brake job that's something like up to $750 remaining to waste...
Yes, the wear sensors go off when there is still plenty of meat on the pads, as you say around 25%. And when a sensor triggers you don't know if it's the front or rear one, so the only way to tell is to check both sets of pads. Sometimes only one "end" of pads will have got to 25% and the other end will have much more meat left on them. I have disabled my wear sensors and instead I manually check the pads once every 6 to 8 weeks.
4. Aside from the wear sensors, I read one on the front and one on the back, is there anything about this job that should dissuade an amateur from performing it? Any tool recommendations, I have all the normal stuff, just no brake specific parts, a 9mm hex looks to be needed? I've seen one guide but any other resources would be appreciated.
Nothing scary enough to dissaude an amateur, it's relatively straightforward.
Yes, you need a 9mm hex bit for the front caliper pins, and it needs to be a fairly long one.
Also, the rear brake pistons must be wound in not pushed in. You can get a special tool for this, or try your luck with some needle nosed pliers.
Make sure you have NOT applied the parking brake when you replace the rear pads!
Last but not least, the wear sensors can be reused if they haven't triggered, as long as you are very careful with both removing them and refitting them.
The front sensor simply clips into the top of the inner pad once it is in place, but with the rear sensor you have to insert it into the retaining spring before you fit the pads and spring. If in doubt, and you want to keep the pad wear sensors operating, get new ones.
#4
09-21-2015, 08:55 PM
There is a terrific step by step post here on the forum with full details of how to do the full brake job on an XF. Well worth reading.
The prices you have been quoted seem way off the charts. Around me (NE USA) the labour in an indy shop is about $150 to replace a pair of pads and rotors (i.e. $300 for all four wheels). Then the parts cost is whatever you choose. Presumably you are looking at just the front or the rear - unlikely to need both at the same time as the wear rates are quite different.
I just bought the R1 Concepts premium drilled/slotted rotors (all 4 wheels) and the posi-quiet ceramic brakes. They are on eBay as a package deal - about $800 for the 2010 supercharged (same as yours). Then with $300 of labour that's a total 4-wheel brake job for $1100.
I'd suggest you keep driving for a while and get the remaining life out of the pads - keep an eye on them and only change when they are genuinely low (
The prices you have been quoted seem way off the charts. Around me (NE USA) the labour in an indy shop is about $150 to replace a pair of pads and rotors (i.e. $300 for all four wheels). Then the parts cost is whatever you choose. Presumably you are looking at just the front or the rear - unlikely to need both at the same time as the wear rates are quite different.
I just bought the R1 Concepts premium drilled/slotted rotors (all 4 wheels) and the posi-quiet ceramic brakes. They are on eBay as a package deal - about $800 for the 2010 supercharged (same as yours). Then with $300 of labour that's a total 4-wheel brake job for $1100.
I'd suggest you keep driving for a while and get the remaining life out of the pads - keep an eye on them and only change when they are genuinely low (
#6
09-22-2015, 08:29 PM
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