Had time today to look at the XF2008 Users Manual and on page 2877 I think I may have found the source of my issues with the seat motor operation (short bursts of activity rather than continuous operation while operating the switch pack levers on the side of the seat).

Page 2877 of the manual states that this is due to something called "inch mode", which is apparently caused by a failure in sensory feedback from the seat modules (feedback sensors). The result is a stall in motor operation after 0.5 seconds, which is precisely what is happening in my seats.


Here is what is written in the manual (direct quote):

"Stall Detection

Seat, steering column and mirror motors are deemed to have stalled if there is no change in the inputs that are received from the corresponding feedback sensors for 200 ms (seat).

If a stall condition is detected then the drive to that motor is cancelled for the remainder of that memory operation (memory recall) or until the switch is re-selected (manual movement).

If the motor movement has stopped due to loss of sensor feedback, either stall or sensor failure, then that motor may be activated again, to move past the stall position, by re-selecting the appropriate switch and pressing for longer than 2 seconds. This allows control of the motor to be maintained if sensor feedback is lost.

Upon re-selection of movement, if sensor pulses are detected then the motor will continue to be driven until the switch is released or another stall condition is detected. If sensor feedback is not detected then the motor is only driven for 0.5 second and then stops until the switch is released and then pressed again, when a further 0.5 second of activation is
permitted, and so on, this is known as inch mode.

For all seat motor manual movements, whenever a motor is driven and a stall occurs, the memory control module records the position at which the stall occurred. If movement occurs beyond a stall position, then that position is erased from the control modules memory. This will always allow movement past a previously recorded stall position once movement has
been registered beyond that position. This is the case for both manual and memory movement.

Initialization

When a replacement driver's seat module is fitted, it should be calibrated a Jaguar approved diagnostic system so that the module can learn the seats absolute position."



So, although I am still not sure how to fix the problem yet, I can at least understand a bit more and try to build on this. To me it sounds like a seat module reprogramming may solve this.

Anyone have any knowledge of this?

The other thing that bothers me is that I cannot get the seat belt alarm and air-bag warning signals to be deactivated, even though I have tried to connect the wires from connectors B (all 4 wires) and connector C (only 3 wires).

The 3 wires on the X351 seat connector C I left in are:

yellow-purple (it should be for Air-Bag inflation speed - did not change pin position)

grey-purple (for memory - moved one pin position to right to match corresponding car socket wire

grey not sure what this is and no corresponding grey wire on car connector C socket.

Here is a picture of the seat connector C with only these wires left. The other 10 wires I removed are for the climate control function (I think).

Puzzles me why I cannot connect properly the seat-belt and air-bag sensors.

 

HI.

I've been reading through this post as I am trying to install XFR seats into my XF.

My XF has memory and heated seats but the difference between the wiring on the seats is similar to your problem.

I've managed to have the seats in, all movements working fine including memory. I'm just struggling with the climate system.

Your Plug A wires into Plug 1 on the seat. The white and red connects to the purple.
The 2 spare wires I had, were for the seat belt connection.

Have you made any progress with the climate?

I can send you some photo's of where I'm at if it will help you?

John.

 

Thanks for the post John. Do you have an XF X350 (till 11.2011) of X360 (after 11.2011)?

I would very much appreciate it off you could send more details of the wiring changes you have had to make with pictures.

I think it is probably much easier in your case as you have seats from the same model of car (XF) whereas I have from a different model (XJ/X351).

I presume you did not have to change the plugs on your seats like I did. Your seat lug A with the power wires should have 10 pins whereas my X351 seats had a 12-pin plug.

You say the white/red wire connects to the purple wire. In my case the white/red wire in plug A from the car does not have a corresponding wire in the original seats I have. My understanding is that this white/red wire is only for the lumbar support power (which I do not currently need in my original seats that are without lumbar function). In my new X531 seats, If I connect the white/red car wire to the blue/red of seat plug A this indeed gives full lumbar as well as bolster function in my new seats. Actually this lumbar/bolster pump function is the only functionality that works properly for me. All other motor function for new seat movement has the "inch mode" problem I referred to in my previous post.

If I look closer at the wiring diagram of the XF seats (16-way memory), it looks like the white/red wire supplies power to the seat switch pack for lumbar/bolster function. However it also provides "LOGIC FEED" to the seat module.

I am a bit confused when you say that the extra wires in plug A were for the seat belt:

which colour of wires were these? In my case the only other wire in plug A of the car is purple/green and this is for the heated seat power. Think the wires for the seat belt detector is located in plug C (22 pin) or plug B (4 pin).

Concerning the climate function, I have not yet progressed that far because I am still trying to get the new X351 seats installed in a way that the seat belt and air-bad warnings are not constantly activated!

Do you have the climate control module already in your car? You of course should have it if you had climate controlled seats originally. I bought the clime controlled module on eBay but this will require a lot of rewiring and then reprogramming.

On plug C of my new X351 seat I have removed the following 10 wires which will need to be connected to the climate control module in the future (I think):

purple/orange and grey brown --> temp. control signals for seat back

purple and yellow/purple --> temp. control signals for seat cushion

blue/green --> fan speed seat back

brown/green --> fan speed seat cushion

grey/orange --> fan speed return (back + cushion)

green/brown --> fan power (back + cushion)

grey/purple and white/purple (twisted together) --> climate TED back


Unfortunately I will also need to have the climate control module properly connected to allow also seat heating in my new X351 seats (which I currently have without the climate module...)


So, would be great if you can share your rewiring details, especially this concerning the seat belt and air bag sensors.

cheers,
Gary

 

Unfortunately, I have put the original seats back in my car as i didn't want to do half a job.

My XFR seats have the same plugs as yours by the looks of it.





After I cut the plugs:


The remaining plug is C. I believe this is for the climate. My car plug fitted so I didn't change it.

Plug A was a 12 pin with 8 wires. My car has a 10 pin plug with 8 wires.
6 of the wires go to the black plug 1 on the seat module. 3 x black, blue/red, green/red and purple/red. I signal tested the wires to make sure each went to the correct pin.
My car had a white/red instead of purple/red so I simply joined the 2.
This leaves a grey and green/blue. These connect to the seat belt unit instead of the colours in my car (Can't remember what they were now).


The orange plug was grey on my seats but the wires are all the same colour so I just swapped the plugs. This is for the air bags and seat sensor.

I fitted the seats and all worked fine except the climate. The air bag light was also on but I hadn't connected the seat belt wires and the air bag wires were over crimped.

Have you got the climate module? There's a couple on ebay but with out the plugs.

I've also read that the computer in the car needs to be re-programmed to control the cooled seats???

I'll be happy if i can just get the heated function working.

Thanks for your help so far. Hopefully we can get this sorted.

John.












New Seat before I cut the plugs

 

To try and make more sense of it,

I traced back from the plug on the new seat to see what each wire did.

I then compared it with my original seats swapped the plugs to suit.

 

Hi John, thanks for the additional information and pictures. My wiring is the same as your seats for the seat modules however not for the additional wires that control the seat belt and air-bag.

Have not yet had time to look into this in detail and I leave on business trip tomorrow for several days so will not have time this week.

Just wanted to mention that the wires for my seal belt and air-bag related function are most likely the following (after looking at wiring diagrams again just now):

At least 2 wires (brown/green and Blue/orange)from 4 pin plug B:

brown/green and Blue/orange on 4-pin car plug B connect to same coloured wires on seat plug. These apparently control the seat belt pre-tensioner. Strangely, the plug harness itself seems to connect these two wires together, which I do not fully understand. Likewise, the other 2 wires in this plug, grey/yellow and green/blue (car plug) or grey/yellow and yellow/orange (seat plug) appear to be connected by the plug harness. Not sure what these two wires are for.


2 wires from 22 pin plug C:

1) In pin position 8, green/blue wire on car plug connects to grey/blue wire on seat plug. This is apparently for the seat belt buckle switch

2) In pin position 7, yellow/purple wire on car plug connects to yellow/purple wire on seat plug. This is for the seat position sensor that controls air-bag inflation speed.

I fear you will also need the climate control module to get the heated seats function working for your new XFR climate seats. I have the module but apparently the main problem is getting hold of the corresponding connectors (which I do not have). I think that you will not get functionality by simply connecting the 22-pin plug C of the seat to the corresponding car plug.

 

Hi John, any progress with your installation? I still have not had time recently to do more.

I did notice that the Plug A of your XFR seat only has 8 wires, whereas my seat Plug A has 11 wires!
Like in your case, 6 of these wires from seat Plug A go to Plug 1 of seat module. The remaining two wires from seat Plug A in your case appear to be for the seat belt buckle (grey and green/blue), whereas none of the 5 remaining wires from seat Plug A in my case (purple/orange, grey/orange, yellow, yellow/blue and blue/brown) seem to serve this function.

Where did you connect your additional grey and green/blue wires from seat Plug A - the ones that you say are for seat belt? I presume to the 2 additional wires in your car Plug A? If not, do you know how the car gets the seat belt engagement information (if not via Plug A)?

Hopefully this w/e I can try more possibilities to get the seat belt and air bag information from the seat recognised by the car. Only then will I install the seats permanently and move on the module reprogramming. Climate/heated function via the climate control module sometime else once I get corresponding connectors for wiring to seat.

 

Hi.

Plug A on the seats was 12 pin, but I replaced it with my 10 pin plug fron the original.
The remaining 2 wires (Black and Red/Purple) are for the heated seats although I couldn't confirm the destination of the black cable. It all matches with the wiring diagrams though.

The Grey and Green/Blue are for the seat belt buckle switch. The grey traces back to pin 11 on plug 1 (as an earth for the switch). The Green/blue traced back to pin 4 on plug C (photo attached)

I've come to a complete standstill on the installation. Really not got a clue on how to progress. Might just put the seats and climate module on ebay and let some one else have a go!!!!

 

Unfortunately, the results were kind of strange:

Although all seat movement could be activated, the movements were not continuous and only short bursts of motor activity could be achieved by sliding/pressing the switch-pack levers. I had to continuously release the lever and slide/press again for the next short movement to happen. Moving the seat all the way back or forward required about 20 such independent actions! Same for moving seat up/dowm and tilting seat back/forward.

Seat XJL MODEL 2010

 

please help with wiring

please help with wiring

 

i have read that if you dont have the seat runner position sensor fitted or calibrated the seat motors will be in ' creep mode ' , the runner sensor is required to tell the airbag where the seat is so it knows how much to activate the airbag should it need to go off, as the airbags have three setting, stage one and stage two , or both stages together ,

pre 2012 seats dont fit directly into post 2012 cars without modification to this system , and vice versa ,

the car is intelligent, and needs this info

BB

 

3 years after buying the really beautiful X351 climate controlled sport seats I finally have them in my XF!

They were stored in my basement after I gave up trying to sort out the electronics and I kind of forgot about them to be honest. Then I put them on eBay and someone bought them but then never came to collect them so I decided to try something else - a transplant.

Summary of Transplant:
1. First I swapped the back part of the X351 seats to the original XF seat base - the basic frame of the seats are identical in every way and the connectors for the recline motor as well as the airbags are also identical. I removed the climate modules (fan/heater/cooler units) as well as the motorized head-rest module from the back but left all the pumps and tubing for the lumbar and bolster support. I disconnected the tubes, blew air into the bags then reconnected and, in this way, found the most comfortable lumbar/bolster position for me (that cannot be changed due to lack of electronic connecttions from the original XF seat wiring).
2. For installing the manual headrests, I simply swapped the leather covers from the X351 headrests onto the original XF headrests, which have the notches in the chrome bars that enter the top. I also swapped the corresponding holding brackets.
3. Swapped the heated pad from back of old XF seat into the X351 cushion. It was actually not that hard to do - just clip off enough of the uphostery rings where the leather covers are attached to the foam cushion and remove the heat pad. Then do the same in the X351 cushions and insert the heated pads. They do not really need glue to hold them in position at edges but I did put some heat resistant 2-sided tape just in case. To "re-stitch" the leather cover back down on the foam I used plastic fasteners and they worked perfectly. There are pre-existing holes in the foam to allow the wires to enter the back of the seat, wher I attached then to the original wiring loom.
4. For the base of the seats it was simple to swap the old XF cushions with the X351 cushions as all the fasteners etc are in the same position. It was however a little more difficult to transplant the heated pads because there are 2 compartements where the heated pad lies and one must first remove more of the upholstery rings to allow good placement.
4. Reinstalled everything, including the original 8-way switch-pack and put back in car.

The entire process took me most of the weekend (one day per seat working on and off) however it was time well spent as the results are brilliant and I now have much superior seats in terms of comfort and support, as well as overall looks. As an added bonus, the heated seats seem to function better - presumably because of the perforated nature of the X351 leather covers allowing easier passage of heat.

I unfortunately did not think of taking picture of the process (sorry) but I will post a picture of how they look now in the car. I feel like I am driving an upgraded car and I really love it!

If anyone wants any of the seat motors (12 in total), the motorized head-rest unit or the climate fan units (with pelltier elements for heating/cooling - 4 in total) then I have a box full of all these items that I can send at no cost if you pay for shipment. Just let me know.

 

Here are some pictures of the transplanted X351/XF combination seats in the car, together with all the different seat components that I no longer need.


X351 back seat portion transplanted onto XF seat base (with the X351 cushions)

Original XF 8-way switch-pack and wiring loom had to be used

still need to clean the seats...

here are all the extra components for donation to interested parties.

 

looking good

i would be interested in the seat control switches

question

did you not upgrade the seat electrics for the extra functions, like powered headrests, or lumbar pump etc ?

or have i missed something ?

BB

 

Hi Brake buster, no problem if you would like to have the switch-pack controllers - just send me a Email (gary.davidson - at - kit.edu) and we can discuss shipping.

Concerning the electrics for the extra functions you mention, this would only work with the above mentioned 18-way switch pack controllers and they are unfortunately not compatible with my standard XF seat connectors in base of car under seats, which connect to standard 8-way heated seats without memory.
The XJ X351 seats have (had) the memory moduled attached under the seats and this is required to communicate with the switch-pack in order to control all the motor functions properly.
When I tried to simply install the entire X351 seats into the car (after modifying the connectors slightly so they connected to XF car harnesses) the were several problems:
1. Seatbelt and airbag warning lights/chime remained on constantly. Something to do with incompatibiliy of seat positioning sensors.
2. Although all seat motors could be activated from the switch-pack, they operated in "inch-mode" only and not continious smooth movements.
3. No ability to use the climate function because this would additionally require installation and wiring up of the climate control module (as well as software activation of the function)
4. No ability to have even the heated seat function I previously had because no heat pads in the X351 seats - only the more sophisticated blower climate elements.

So, only possibility for me was to keep all the original electronics (meaning original XF seat base and wiring loom) and then transplant on the seat cushion from the X351 seat base and bolt on the X351 back. However, for the X351 seat back, the XF wiring loom only allows connection to the recline motors, the airbag and the heater pads (which I transplanted from the original seats). I therefore removed the motorised headrests and the climate fan modules from the back.

I kept the lumbar support and bolster support bags and associated pumps. Before reinstalling the cover of the seat back, I blew them up (by mouth) to my desitred settings and reconnected the air-tight tubing connection to maintain the inflation. Took a bit of trial and error but eventually found the most comfortable level of inflation for me, which was close to half-way inflation of all 4 bags.

I should mention that had it not been for the pandemic over the past few weeks (lots of home-office) I would not have found the time or even had the desire to do this transplantation work - but it was actually much easier than I expected and I am so glad I did it. I bought the X351 seats a couple of years ago and they were just lying around the basement taking up space after my initial attempty to install. I wanted to get rid of them because we cleared-out and redecorated the entire house during the pandemic as well!!

 

BB, just had a thought that you can perhaps answer: if I swap the seat slide position sensor from the origonal XF seats to the X351 seats, would that solve all the problems relating to inch-mode (creep-mode) as well as the seatbelt and airbag warnings?

 

yes,

creep mode is initiated in the seat control module because it doesn't know the seat position for the two stage airbag deployment

so if you either use the original rail with module attached to it, or move the original module ( from your cars original seat ) to the new seat rail, that will work fine

i did have to do this to an X-type i had, worked perfectly after

BB


ps, i also remember that after swapping the sensor ensure the seat is fully back before you reconnect the battery , and then motor the seat to your desired position , and this will calibrate the sensor position

 

Great, thanks for the quick reply BB. I will try this out to see if I can indeed get the other functions to work properly. This means I will hang on to the components (also switch-packs) until I know if they can be of use to me.

I will try to Swap the entire side railing of the driver seat base (with attached position sensor) from the original XF seat to the X351 seat base and re-install all the motors, X351 wiring loom and X351 seat memory controllers etc.
Hopefully this will give me all motor functions without creep-mode and also deactivate the airbag warning light. I already have the small door memory switch installed.

I am however still unsure if this sensor swap alone will also deactivate the seatbelt warning light - so, in addition to the XF sensor rail, I will also install the original XF sealbelt pre-tensioners on the X351 seat base.

Concerning the heated pads I have already swapped over to the X351 seat cushions, I will have to think of how I can use power cables to operate them from the X351 wiring loom. Either I try to take the power cables from the existing loom (that connected to the seat heated/cooled blowers) or splice in the cables from the XF loom. Could be tricky. I do not want to try and wire in the climate control module in order to have full climate control...

Not sure when I will get round to this as I am more busy at work just now but will update as soon as I have made progress (or not...)

 

how can I do this without connecting the battery first? I can only move the seat when it is plugged into car.
Or can I somehow wire up to a spare 12V battery (I have one) and power up the motors in this way? I presume I would have to connect +12V to the yellow/red and brown/red pins and -`ve to the 3 black ground wires of following X351 seat plug:


power plug of X351 seat. Yellow/red and brown/red wires are power feeds (+12V) for seat as far as I can tell

 

undo the rear fixings, drive the seat base all the way back , disconnect battery , undo front seat fixing bolts ,

the new rail/sensor should be fitted in the same, fully back position as the one you take out , as they do have quite a bit of movement , a quick measure with the other rail will confirm its correct ,( or mark with tape to a fixed point ?)

yes, did not realise you didn't use your original seat occupancy sensor module , as this is paired with your car, and the replacement one will not talk to your ecu ,

be aware, some sensors are also paired with the gel seat pad occupancy sensor its self, and are not interchangeable, so you may have to use your original passenger seat occupancy gel pack under the new cover, this does take a lot of disassembly to achieve mind,

there is not one in the drivers seat, as its presumed your sat in the car to drive it, lol

as for the parts, very sensible to hold onto them and try and get a full set of options for your seats

hope this helps

BB