The pitch of the engine changed to a deep bellowing noise. As I drove into the dealer, several service people walked up to me saying ..."That doesn't sound right." The car is running in "Restricted Performance" mode.Oil level and early maintenance has always a priority since this is my daily driver.

 

If the dealer and your specialist both hear 'chain slap', then it's entirely possible that the one of the primary guides has broken due to wear from the tensioner assembly.

Notwithstanding that you indeed must pay for a repair, whatever that may be, at a minimum the cam covers must be removed to determine the extent of the damage so you can make a good decision on what to do next.

 

This is true, in any circumstance, it requires a lot of disassembly to determine the extent of the repair. At that point, most will want to replace the whole timing assembly based upon the know history of problems. Especially since I have a 100,000 miles engine. Some have argued that I replace the whole engine (second hand) because of the cost of the repair.

 

[QUOTE=NBCat;2154658]there is the likelihood of bent valves being the result.

As you mentioned, the mechanics could tear the engine down to the timing chains/tensioners and have the valve covers off and tell me.."Hey, your valves are bent." At that point, how much money will it cost to repair this engine?

 

Best price for just the chain guides alone from an inde that I have seen quoted is circa $3-4K.

Add in the rest a heck a of a lot more.

In my humble opinion not worth it.

 

Hence, my complaint to Customer Care since this is not in the service manual requirements. Most vehicles that require this service will have "timing chain/guides" replacement at 100-120k miles.

 

Here is what I pulled from Range Rovers. net :
I have searched this forum end to end regarding the infamous timing chain guide issues, and I gather that no matter what, the 2010 - 2012 5.0 will at one point need to have the timing chain guides and timing chains replaced, or risk utter engine destruction.

As such, when looking for a used 2010 - 2012 it would make sense to factor this job in to the purchase price, in the event it had never been done.

However, after speaking to service technicians at multiple Land Rover dealerships I have been getting a pretty consistent response which implies "It is the luck of the draw". Citing numerous examples of well maintained 5.0's with over 100K miles that have never had the guides replaced and do not demonstrate any of the symptoms of a loose chain.

I found a very clean well maintained 2010 supercharged 5.0 for $25K with 75K miles. I looked through the Carfax and called up the dealership where it was maintained and I found out that the previous owner brought it in for a "loud rattling noise" and sure enough they diagnosed it as needing new timing chains/guides and quoted him $8K to do the job.

The service technician explained that the previous owner meticulously maintained the truck in every other way and always took care of any needed service right away (I assume the $8K put him over the edge, so he ultimately traded it in for a 2013+ and it went to auction where it was subsequently bought by another small independent dealership currently selling it).

As such, I figured all in at $33K ($25K purchase price+ $8K timing chains/guides) would be a pretty good entry price and would leave me somewhat worry free from catastrophic engine failure risk. However, he told me that since it is making the rattle to RUN. I explained $33K would actually not be too bad considering, however he was of the opinion that it would be more prudent to go with a more expensive one without the rattle, lets say $33K for the same truck with a bit less mileage but without the rattle.

I could not understand the logic since the rattle could start at anytime and then I would need to spend another $8K bringing the all in price up to $41K instead. However, he seems to think there are good ones and bad ones, and if you have a 2010- 2012 in 2017 with decent mileage that is not rattling, it most likely won't and therefore you are better off continuing to search for a "good" one.

I also got the impression that he was of the opinion that a "bad" one even after getting the job performed is still worse off than a "good" one that never had the job performed.

Are there any 5.0 owners out there which have never had the rattle? If so, what is your current mileage?

Is there any disadvantage to getting this job done which would somehow make the engine more likely to fail in the future? I read on here that someone got the job done and then 30K miles later the engine blew.

 

When I was looking for a Range Rover Sport I did a lot of research which put me off any car in the 2010-2012 range.

Found a 2013 with relatively high mileage, 80,000. Price had been lowered by a Toyota Dealer.

Took it for a test drive. With engine running, hood up, standing by the engine I could here a muffled ticking.

That put me off. Then the salesperson put me directly in touch on the phone with a JLR dealer service manager.

Who agreed with me about my timing chain guide concerns in a fairly staight forward manner.

I then backed out of the purchase.

When I discovered that the car was actually outside of the affected vin range I factored in what it might cost for me to DIY a tensioner update

and went back to the dealer who had lowered the price more than he did before.

He lowered it a bit more and I purchased the Rover which even factoring in say $5k for an inde to do the job was a good deal.

I am very pleased with my decision.

As soon as I got it home I did THREE oil changes with additive to get rid of any sludge etc

I have only put another 4-5,000 miles on it and the noise I hear is actually less than before and is from the back of the engine.

The problem with Jaguar is that I can not see any vin range mentioned anywhere about the 5.0 engine in Jaguars that could be at risk.

As you stated it seems very much luck of the draw even buying a used engine with low or higher mileage.

Quality of oil used is a big factor plus waiting 6-7,000 miles between oil changes in my view is not a good idea no matter what the claims are by JLR.

 

You could do an oil change every 100 miles and it won't stop you from having this issue with the timing chains. The problem is that the metal is deforming on the timing chain guides under the pressure put on it by the tensioners.

What I want to know is how well does it work to just replace the timing chain guides and nothing else. If you have to change the chains, especially to a larger pitch chain, that's a huge pain in the *** and much more expensive. But if you could just change the guides before they wear to the point of doing any other damage, then it could be a reasonably priced proactive repair.

 

Why do some cars develope the issue and some not? Is it bad choice of oil combined with extended oil changes or sheer pot luck?

My oil changes that I did were simply to clean all parts that oil touched nothing more nothing less

 

May be statistical.

If so, more and more will fail as time goes by.

 

Our 2010 LR4 with the 5.0 naturally aspirated engine got up to almost 100k miles before we sold it last year. No issues at all with the engine. At the end there was a bit more of a rattle sound than initially although as I understand it these direct injection engines rattle / chatter from the injection system. I was anticipating having to do the chains at some point. But didn't seem close.
My 2010 XF 5.0 SC is in the 60k range and sounds perfect

I'm not sure I agree with your service advisor. I suspect most cars will suffer this in the end as it's just wear - so I would take one that has been repaired over one that doesn't exhibit it yet

Question is how 'bad' does it have to get before taking the plunge and replacing? And how to tell what noise is chains vs what is injector noise

 

Quite a few people in different forums have said that about the injection system.

The muffled ticking I hear on my engine is from the rear of it.

 

Replacing the guides (which also requires new tensioners) for the redesigned one with a hardened area for contact with the tensioner is definitely possible without changing the chains and other associated gear, and is the recommended fix in the LR TSBs. The only case where I'd consider replacing chains as well is where there's been considerable loss in tension due to deformation of the guide and the chains have come into contact with the metal on the block - the only issue here is the apparently increasing scarcity of 6.35mm pitch chains & cam phasers, if the engine is running that pitch gear. There will become a point where 6.35mm gear is no longer available, meaning that a required replacement of 8.0mm chains, cam phasers, crank drive sprockets, and fuel pump cam will absolutely render the repair uneconomical.

 

Stick a large flatblade screwdriver on the high-pressure fuel pipe that goes over the engine and push your ear against the end of the handle. I bet you'll be able to hear the ticking at the same rate, showing it's coming from the high pressure fuel system.

 

I have a car stethoscope so will try that.

Waiting for new spark plugs for the Rover and a bit warmer weather so will try that then. Also will try a borescope, with a right angle mirror, to look inside the cylinders and try to see the intake valves for carbon build up.

When you did your 5.0 engine rebuild what were the condition of your valves?

 

Intake valves were in a pretty appalling state:



But cleaned up and lapped OK:



Exhaust valves didn't initially look as bad....



But once I'd cleaned them up they were pitted beyond repair, so I replaced them:

 

Wow! What mileage on the engine at that point?

Also even if the carbon were to be removed chemically you would still have that pitting I guess.

 

It is not just 2010-2012 range that is affected . Read a while back on another forum guy with a 15 reg xfr-s with same problems with this engine

 

Which problem? The effects of GDI or the chain guide issue?