Hello fellow Jaguar Enthusiasts,

Some of you may have seen me on here, but I haven't been posting as frequently...

I have owned a 2012 XFR, ended up doing some mild tuning to it (ie, smaller SC pulley, with a tune, along with the MINA Exhaust), loved the car so much ended up upgrading to...

2015 XFR-S, and have owned this car since new (October of 2015), but I am now getting the modding itch, and I have already done:
- Smaller SC Pulley (Mina's wouldn't work, so went with Velocity AP's pulley)
- Intake Pipes (from MINA)
- K&N Filters
- RICA Tune
Unfortunately with the XFR-S' higher stock form, when you end up gaining 50BHP (Crank), its not quite as noticeable as it was on the XFR, when you gained almost 75-90BHP... lower reference point and more power gained ends up resulting in a bigger delta, and more importantly you feel the difference.

I am now contemplating on upgrading the lower supercharger pulley, and have done plenty of reading on the F-Type Forum, but haven't come across anyone that has done it on our XF Platform (Supercharged, R, or R-S)

Seems to be a very popular upgrade for the V6 F-Types, but I'm not interested in driving impressions and dyno results of the V6 variant, I want input from people with V8s that have done this upgrade.

I have reached out to:
- My Tuner (Rica) to ensure the software can handle the hardware changes
- Velocity AP Tuning, and Stuart was extremely helpful and knowledgeable
- EuroToys, and Mike was extremely helpful and knowledgeable

But now I would like user reviews/ opinions/ feedback

Looking forward to any and all relevant feedback

 

Talk to Jags Gill at ETG (they advertise here).


He should be able to give you much more info.


But I bet he will recommend against a lower pulley as it may increase the PSI to much for the intercoolers to effectively keep the intake temps down.


Good luck.

 

why wouldnt the mina pulley work?
who is RICA as far as tuning? I somehow havent heard of them (not that I dont very much enjoy my eurocharged tune)

The PSI problem is that our engines have open decks and can only handle so much boost, and then come the later drive train components.

I do not think there would be an issue with the lower pulley swap, it is a lot more expensive because of what you are actually changing out and the location, but I do not think there any clearance issues.
Cooling should of course be upgraded, but have you thought of a nitrous system instead? It adds power through fuel (well, combustible gas, you get the idea) and nitrous will cool the intake charge by a huge amount.

 

I have had same path as you.
2010 portfolio >2012 XFR > 2013 XFR-S.
Been looking to get mine tuned but w/o pulley because of warranty.
Who tuned yours and what did you notice different.

 

Thanks, I have had many discussions with Jags over the years, and although I am sure he is knowledgeable and sells a quality product, I have never been swayed/ convinced to purchase what he is selling... Why would I expect him to have some insight on how good or not so good a lower pulley works if it is not in his current product offering, I would only expect him to provide a biased opinion, as: "I don't sell it because..."

The whole point of this was to reach out to a community and get feedback from actual experience of users with this upgrade on a similar platform (V8 not V6)


I would never think of adding nitrous to a car I consider to be a daily driver (during the summer). If I was worried about cooling charge intake temps I would go water or water/ meth injection before going the nitrous route...

Rica is a reputable European tuning company I came across them in a previous life when all I owned were Volvos, and they are a recognized tuner of that brand, but they offer tunes for pretty much most makes and models, and they work directly with manufacturer, Volvo, Jaguar, etc...


Unfortunately with our XFR-S having such a high baseline (ie: 550HP) a tune on its own will do very little for you... you are maybe looking at a jump up to 570-575HP, and 20-25HP at the crank is not something you will feel on a car that heavy with so much power to begin with...

I would figure I'm in the 600BHP range (that's a tune and pulley) and I can barely feel the difference hence I'm after more...

I don't think a tune on its own will make a noticeable difference.

 

So I started this thread back in September of 2017 (last year), and even though the feedback wasn't too positive, I ended up pulling the trigger on the lower pulley.

I settled on buying it from Mike of Eurotoys, I think it was sometime in November or December when it finally showed up, and it's been sitting in my garage with my car (as it hibernated through our never ending winter).

Well last week, got the car out and started driving it, and noticed right away that I need to replace my tires, so I ended up ordering the Michelin Pilot Super Sports 4S.

I then booked an appointment with my favorite guys that have done all the other dyno runs, on this car (and any other car I have toyed with in the past), and I ended up getting them to:

• Dismount old tires, and mount new tires
• Install the lower crank pulley (the Eurotoys one, that's been collecting dust)
• Do some dyno runs to see what the results are

I have attached 3 pdf files, they are scans of the runs from today:

• 1st Attachment is a comparison of the run I did last summer during a dyno day event, that essentially captures the state of the car at that time (Upper Velocity Pulley, K&N Filters, Mina Intake, Rica Tune) 540.5WHP and 504.1 WTQ (lb-ft) vs the run from today, which would include everything from before + lower crank pulley 570.4WHP & 544.8 WTQ (lb-ft) that is a gain of ~30WHP and ~40WTQ
• 2nd Attachment is a run in 5th gear, all other runs have been done in 4th gear, but owner and dyno operator agreed that with HP and Torque that 5th gear would be a better gear to run it in. This translated to: 570.6WHP and 583.7WTQ
• 3rd Attachment, takes the wheel horsepower and through a reverse draw down feature, the dyno is able to measure the parasitic losses of the vehicle and essentially can attribute a drivetrain loss of that particular vehicle. The Jag essentially spins up the rear roller while engaged in a single gear. Engine speed starts at 2000rpm (whatever speed that translates to) to 6000rpm (again whatever speed that translates to), then dyno operator puts the car in neutral, and lets the drag of the car slow down the roller, till the car is back to 2000rpm (again what ever speed that tranlates to). From this they are able to back calculate the drivetrain losses, and can produce a theoretical crank horsepower figure, in this case we applied this drivetrain loss factor to the 5th gear run (from Attachment #2), and ended up with: 656BHP & 671 Torque

I noticed a couple of things, so I never insisted on logging air fuel on previous runs, just because I knew what I was getting into, but today I insisted on it. So the first couple of runs the A/F ratio was at about 12.8 to 12.9 once we were fully loaded (fulll throttle). Then the more runs we got in, and we obviously let the car cool down in between runs, we started to notice the A/F improve. In peak torque, the values would drop as low as 12.3 to 12.5 and as we approached peak hp we are at 12.8

I then got to drive it for about 20 minutes back to my work, where, I am blown away by how good the tires are, and I am amazed how hard the car pulls...


I can't wait till I head back to the race track and get my next 1/4 mile time

 

This is great to hear, a lower and upper pulley are going to be in my future once the engine is rebuilt.

 

Nice mods. Your numbers aren't adding up though. If you calculated 656 BHP, it stands to reason that your WHP number would be at least 100 HP less, so either you are tickling 700 BHP or you are closer to 550 WHP... Still impressive numbers any way you slice it. Post up some photos please. Any external mods in place?

 

I am starting to wonder when my engine will grenade. Got any idea what you (or someone) would quote for a rebuild? I guess it all depends on how bad the internal damage is, but if/when it goes, I will be looking at either a newer XFR or F type and installing my current mods into it, or getting custom internals for the 3.0 Litre (forged rods, pistons, etc.) like you have done with your 5.0 Litre Except, I have nowhere near your ability...lol...so It will need to get done by a shop.

 

Given my rebuild isn't complete yet - life gets in the way and now we're having to move house(!) - I don't think I could take on another!

I don't think the engines are any more liable to grenade than any other, providing you keep an eye on the oil level. Also if you have an earlier engine, change out the timing chains, tensioners, and guides. It could get expensive if you have 6mm chains and parts become rare, but those chain guides wearing feel like a bit of a time bomb.

 

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But drive-train loss isnt just a flat value, its always been attributed typically as a percentage. For RWD vehicles most experienced tuners will use a 10 to 15% drive train loss, and if you ready my post carefully the way this dyno figured out the drive train losses, sounds in theory very plausible, it essentially accounts for the extra drag/ resistance to rotation that particular vehicle has on the dyno roller. The dyno roller has a fixed mass, and resistance to rolling, and difference can be calculated as that particular vehicle's load.


Either way if I do it the old generic way, 570 / 0.9 = 633 (10% drive-train losses), and 570/ 0.85 = 670 (15% drive-train losses)


So at 656, its right smack in the middle, at ~13% (570/656 = ~0.869) drive-train losses...


I personally am convinced that it is accurate.


As for pictures, I have included a few, no external mods to note, the XFR-S already comes pretty decked out from the factory. I guess tint would be the only thing worth noting, and now the new fatter tires (305 vs 295, not pictured below).


Pictures are from last summer (wife's F-Pace S, My XFR-S, and the old Winter beater, since then the Volvo V70R has been replaced with an Acura ZDX)

 

nice looking Jag for sure. I am by no means an expert on the variables that effect drivetrain loss, but as a rule, I have been told by many to use 20% as a conservative figure. I have the VAP Tune and both pulleys (crank and s/c) Their estimates for tune and lower crank pulley was 475 BHP. My dyno results for that were 383 WHP. Fits right in line with 20% drivetrain loss. I have since added the s/c pulley and 200 cel cats which were good for another 28 WHP. That put me at 411 WHP....then I added the spray kit with a 175HP progressive shot.

Under a full shot in 5th gear, I am running close to 685BHP. If I applied your estimate of 10% drivetrain loss, My net would be 616 WHP. I like that figure much better......lol

 

Quick update, went back to the track and ran 11.97 @ 118.8 (at 2200 feet elevation), see link: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-track-189972/

 

So another update, I have since bettered, my quarter mile time, and set 11.95 @ 119.65, see link: 1/4 mile thread

That was back in early October (October 6th), and in Late September (September 21st), I had started this thread on installing Hi-Flow Cats: Hi Flow Cats

And by mid October (October 18th) I lined up a dyno session to show where things are at in the car's final iteration...
So I have attached two (2) Dyno Graphs with multiple plots:
Comparison #1 (are runs from the same day with the same hardware, but different tunes), shows:

• VAP Stage 2+LFB (590whp & 581lb-ft) vs
• Stock Tune (577whp & 573lb-ft) vs
• Rica (574whp & 570lb-ft)

I can tell that the Rica Tune is no longer sufficient due to all the hardware changes, keep in mind the tune was only dialed in for the upper pulley swap only. The part that amazes me is how well the Stock Tune does with all the hardware changes. The VAP Stage 2 torque curve is always that highest and the closest to being flat, across the entire rpm range. and the horsepower numbers are also again the highest across the entire rpm range.


Comparison #2 (are runs from different dates with different hardware setups)

• VAP Stage 2+LFB (590whp & 581lb-ft) on October 18th vs
• Lower Pulley, with stock axle back exhaust, stock CATS, and Rica Tune (571whp & 584lb-ft) on May 4th vs
• Old Cats, essentially the state of the care before I upgraded the CATS and Tune (to compensate for the hi-flow CATS), so upper and lower pulleys, with VAP Stage 1 tune, with QuickSilver axle back exhaust (574whp & 566lb-ft) on September 6th

This is an odd one, again the Torque that was generated on May 4th run, is the highest peak value, and area under the curve (average value), but this could also be down to how the dyno operator ran the car on the different days, shape of the curves are slight different, and I think its more the throttle input and user input rather than the car's hardware + software changes.

I think the car now feels just as torque-y down low and in the mid range as it ever did, but it continues to pull up top, where as before torque starts to dip starting in high 5000rpms (5600+rpm) and as a result the HP suffers, but now car continues to pull all the way almost till redline.

What is evident is the stock (old) cats run showed the lowest torque numbers (566lb-ft), and I think this is due to the tune not being updated to compensate for the axle back exhaust (free-flowing) and in the top end (again 5600+rpm) you can actually see the "Lower Pulley" run and the "old cats" run intersect one another with the "Lower Pulley" dropping and the "old cats" holding steady.

 

What transmission is in the xfr-s?

 

Same ZF 8HP70 as in all Jags since 2012.

 

2013 in North America

Jaguar still used the six (6) speed transmission in 2012 in North America, 2013 they switched to the eight (8) speed.

I will say that the transmission in our F-Pace seems different then the one in my XFRS, well the gearing anyways.

I can cruise @ 120kph (75mph) in my xfrs and only be sitting at less than 1500rpm, yet with the F-Pace at the same speed I’m closer to 2000rpm.

 

I have 3 customers with upper and lower pulleys, tunes and exhuast done and none have ever had any issues with engine longevity, over heating etc. Even in humid hot houston. 1 a 2012 xkr s, 1 21012 xkr, and a 2009 xkr.
On drive train loses it depends on tires, gearing, vehicle, and dyno etc. I always recommend doing a few baseline runs and knowing the factory rated crank numbers you can use a baseline for drivetrain losses. For instance. My nissan frontier i built to off road and do whatever truck needs i have was factory rated at 260hp crank from a normally aspirated 4.0l v6 on a dynodynamics/mustang dyno(aka heartbreaker shows much lower numbers than dyno jet) stock it had 188rwhp or a 27% drivetrain loss. After i built the engine and adapted a ken bell twin screw 2.6litre super charger to it from a ls engine kit, it now cranks out 12psi boost 337rwhp or a 150rwhp increase in hp. Is actually a bit higher than that as i have bigger mud tires and heavier wheels and 4.56 gears so that drivetrain loss is higher now. I went to another shop for a dynoday car show and put down 50rwhp more than the dyno dynamics dyno i always use on a dynojet no changes done. This is why people like dynojets, bigger numbers. Always make sure that no matter what dyno you use, make sure the operator doesn't fudge the numbers to boost their work or parts. It is easy to do. You want honest and repeatable numbers not a operator that will change facters to alter dyno numbers. Keep up the modding of jagaurs. I like when peopl choose the high or harder road than all the me to cars.

 

This is the kind of info I was looking for. I already have the 300 cell cats on, intake, tune, upper 60.5mm pulley, and meth. I plan on getting the lower pulley by the end of the month.