XF 5.0 timing tensioners change: official zip tie method
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,097
Likes: 3,371
From: home
Sorry wrong again!
Please listen to people that know like Factory Jaguar techs.
We have one of the best on here and he goes by Brutal.
He says it's not common at all and he works on Jaguars every single day.
Be careful where you get your information as it could be wrong!
.
.
.
Please listen to people that know like Factory Jaguar techs.
We have one of the best on here and he goes by Brutal.
He says it's not common at all and he works on Jaguars every single day.
Be careful where you get your information as it could be wrong!
.
.
.
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 18
Likes: 5
From: Clayton, NC
I'm not sure where you are coming from with him (or me?!?) being wrong?
This is a problem with the earlier 5.0 engines. It's all over on this forum and the Land Rover forums. Performing this repair has made night and day difference in the noises coming from under my hood.
And while I don't know Brutal, I will tell you that I paid $150 for a Jaguar tech at a dealership to misdiagnose the problem and tell me it was the supercharger isolator making the sound.
This is a problem with the earlier 5.0 engines. It's all over on this forum and the Land Rover forums. Performing this repair has made night and day difference in the noises coming from under my hood.
And while I don't know Brutal, I will tell you that I paid $150 for a Jaguar tech at a dealership to misdiagnose the problem and tell me it was the supercharger isolator making the sound.
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,180
Likes: 542
From: San Francisco, CA
Sorry wrong again!
Please listen to people that know like Factory Jaguar techs.
We have one of the best on here and he goes by Brutal.
He says it's not common at all and he works on Jaguars every single day.
Be careful where you get your information as it could be wrong!
.
.
.
Please listen to people that know like Factory Jaguar techs.
We have one of the best on here and he goes by Brutal.
He says it's not common at all and he works on Jaguars every single day.
Be careful where you get your information as it could be wrong!
.
.
.
I don't understand why you would claim someone pointing the existence of these issues out is "wrong" simply because the problem might be less common than on the 4.0s - the problem still exists and therefore they are correct.
Last edited by davetibbs; Apr 7, 2020 at 12:54 PM.
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Member
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From: Spain
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 61
Likes: 15
From: Spain
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 18
Likes: 5
From: Clayton, NC
It was not overly hard on either side. The side where I needed to take off the plastic part was the harder of the two, but there was plenty of room after I split the guide apart.
Worst case scenario your zip tie comes loose and the engine jumps time. At this point, you'd need to fully time the engine rather than just replacing the guide/tensioner. With that said, just follow the directions and you'll be fine.
Worst case scenario your zip tie comes loose and the engine jumps time. At this point, you'd need to fully time the engine rather than just replacing the guide/tensioner. With that said, just follow the directions and you'll be fine.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 61
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From: Spain
I found another guy performing this method successfully. Long post but really helpful:
https://www.rangerovers.net/threads/...method.335252/
I need to change the water pump because there is a coolant leak, so I will probably change the tensioners this summer using this method while changing the pump. I will appreciate any additional information on this method (photos, videos,...)
I have just completed this tensioner/guide replacement on my 2011 L322 SC with 85000 miles on the clock by following the official JLR short cut method which uses a zip tie to secure the chain and it worked like a charm. I have come across a couple of threads on this forum and the Sport forum but thought I would add a bit more to assist and put peoples minds at rest.
I followed the attached Land Rover Crankshaft Pulley Removal procedure and then the Timing Chain Tensioner - Engine Set procedures with a few of my own shortcuts. There were one or two coolant pipes that I did not disconnect or remove because there was no need and I did not replace the fuel lines as one is supposed to according to LR but basically did it according to the book. I also left the alternator in place.
I was mistakenly sold a crank locking tool kit from the earlier 4.2 SC engine but I decided to modify it slightly and it worked ok. (It was one third of the price). The only down side in using this tool kit is it does not include anything to help with refitting the crank pulley which is a very tight fit.
The bottom line is you need to remove what is necessary to get to the timing chain covers and a bit of common sense in conjunction with the manual will tell you what must be done. Once all the peripherals and the crank pulley are out of the way you remove the upper timing chain covers - left and right - and then the lower (not necessarily in that order). I fitted 2 zip ties to each bank in turn because I had read about breaking zip ties and the nightmare involved to put it right but as long as they are good quality you should be fine with one. Provided you have the crankshaft in the correct position as per the procedure. This removes any tendency for the cams to jump as they will be in a neutral position with no tension on any of the lobes. The guide on the left hand bank was not very easy to remove and refit but a little bit of persuasion helped. I had read that some had to remove the fixed guides as well but not in my case. It may have something to do with how tight you make the zip ties. Mine was not very tight because I could see how the tightness could affect the removal/refitting. The right hand bank guide slipped in and out with no persuasion required - it was very simple. I fitted new tensioners which are supplied with the plunger in a compressed state secured with a pin that is removed once in place and once it was all done I closed up and reassembled. Car is running like a dream now and finally I can put the hammer down and have some fun. I bought it with the engine rattle and have been nursing it pending this job.
I have not listed all the steps because most of them are obvious and in the procedure but here are a couple of cautions.
1. Fuel lines. If you do replace them it makes the job a lot more complicated because you have to remove engine mountings and various other bits and pieces. Land Rover include this due to the dangers of working with any fuel related parts and possible leaks so if you want to be totally sure you should follow what they say. But re-using the pipes it worked for me.
2. Crank locking tool. The early version I used can be modified but not without the help of a good machine shop. You will be better off with the correct one. I actually plan on buying one soon because I have a few of these jobs looming.
3. Upper timing covers. There is one bolt on each that is hidden and can make you a very sad person when the cover breaks as you try to lever it off. I very nearly shed a tear when it happened to me. Thank goodness for my parts car.
4. The crank bolt is very tight and may have a left hand thread or right hand thread. This is easy to determine by checking the numbers on the bolt head. I managed to remove it using my 1/2 drive breaker bar with a 2 meter cheater lever but a 3/4 drive would be much better. Especially to tighten.
5. I did not use the crank locking tool as per the procedure to lock the crank via the ring gear. This is just to temporarily secure the crank to remove the pulley inner torx bolts when shown in the procedure. There are easier ways to lock it.
5. A dedicated puller is needed to remove the pulley and it remains very tight right up to the moment it pops off. There is no way that you can lever if off.
6. The procedure states that the engine must only be rotated in the direction shown in the procedure using the refitted crank bolt as the means to turn the engine. This is a problem due to the left hand thread - it loosens the bolt when you try to turn the engine. So I temporarily fitted the crank pulley with just enough bite to enable the torx bolts on the inner part of the pulley to be used. Its obvious when you see it.
7. I finally refitted the pulley by gently tapping it on by holding a large socket against the inner face of the pulley and carefully hitting it with a hammer until it was definitely on straight and moving gradually and then using the old crank bolt to pull it on. Finally swapping the bolts with the new one to fully tighten. The LR tightness is insane. I could only manage the 200NM followed by around 45 degrees. The procedure requires 270 degrees. Impossible with a 1/2 inch tool. Will be doing it again once my 3/4 drive 24mm deep reach socket arrives.
In conclusion it does seem like a daunting procedure but if followed with care its very much a DIY job. I have done many timing chain guide replacements on the older BMW M62 motor fitted to early L322's and this is a breeze in comparison.
No photos are included in this post because the attached manual sections show everything very clearly.
I followed the attached Land Rover Crankshaft Pulley Removal procedure and then the Timing Chain Tensioner - Engine Set procedures with a few of my own shortcuts. There were one or two coolant pipes that I did not disconnect or remove because there was no need and I did not replace the fuel lines as one is supposed to according to LR but basically did it according to the book. I also left the alternator in place.
I was mistakenly sold a crank locking tool kit from the earlier 4.2 SC engine but I decided to modify it slightly and it worked ok. (It was one third of the price). The only down side in using this tool kit is it does not include anything to help with refitting the crank pulley which is a very tight fit.
The bottom line is you need to remove what is necessary to get to the timing chain covers and a bit of common sense in conjunction with the manual will tell you what must be done. Once all the peripherals and the crank pulley are out of the way you remove the upper timing chain covers - left and right - and then the lower (not necessarily in that order). I fitted 2 zip ties to each bank in turn because I had read about breaking zip ties and the nightmare involved to put it right but as long as they are good quality you should be fine with one. Provided you have the crankshaft in the correct position as per the procedure. This removes any tendency for the cams to jump as they will be in a neutral position with no tension on any of the lobes. The guide on the left hand bank was not very easy to remove and refit but a little bit of persuasion helped. I had read that some had to remove the fixed guides as well but not in my case. It may have something to do with how tight you make the zip ties. Mine was not very tight because I could see how the tightness could affect the removal/refitting. The right hand bank guide slipped in and out with no persuasion required - it was very simple. I fitted new tensioners which are supplied with the plunger in a compressed state secured with a pin that is removed once in place and once it was all done I closed up and reassembled. Car is running like a dream now and finally I can put the hammer down and have some fun. I bought it with the engine rattle and have been nursing it pending this job.
I have not listed all the steps because most of them are obvious and in the procedure but here are a couple of cautions.
1. Fuel lines. If you do replace them it makes the job a lot more complicated because you have to remove engine mountings and various other bits and pieces. Land Rover include this due to the dangers of working with any fuel related parts and possible leaks so if you want to be totally sure you should follow what they say. But re-using the pipes it worked for me.
2. Crank locking tool. The early version I used can be modified but not without the help of a good machine shop. You will be better off with the correct one. I actually plan on buying one soon because I have a few of these jobs looming.
3. Upper timing covers. There is one bolt on each that is hidden and can make you a very sad person when the cover breaks as you try to lever it off. I very nearly shed a tear when it happened to me. Thank goodness for my parts car.
4. The crank bolt is very tight and may have a left hand thread or right hand thread. This is easy to determine by checking the numbers on the bolt head. I managed to remove it using my 1/2 drive breaker bar with a 2 meter cheater lever but a 3/4 drive would be much better. Especially to tighten.
5. I did not use the crank locking tool as per the procedure to lock the crank via the ring gear. This is just to temporarily secure the crank to remove the pulley inner torx bolts when shown in the procedure. There are easier ways to lock it.
5. A dedicated puller is needed to remove the pulley and it remains very tight right up to the moment it pops off. There is no way that you can lever if off.
6. The procedure states that the engine must only be rotated in the direction shown in the procedure using the refitted crank bolt as the means to turn the engine. This is a problem due to the left hand thread - it loosens the bolt when you try to turn the engine. So I temporarily fitted the crank pulley with just enough bite to enable the torx bolts on the inner part of the pulley to be used. Its obvious when you see it.
7. I finally refitted the pulley by gently tapping it on by holding a large socket against the inner face of the pulley and carefully hitting it with a hammer until it was definitely on straight and moving gradually and then using the old crank bolt to pull it on. Finally swapping the bolts with the new one to fully tighten. The LR tightness is insane. I could only manage the 200NM followed by around 45 degrees. The procedure requires 270 degrees. Impossible with a 1/2 inch tool. Will be doing it again once my 3/4 drive 24mm deep reach socket arrives.
In conclusion it does seem like a daunting procedure but if followed with care its very much a DIY job. I have done many timing chain guide replacements on the older BMW M62 motor fitted to early L322's and this is a breeze in comparison.
No photos are included in this post because the attached manual sections show everything very clearly.
I need to change the water pump because there is a coolant leak, so I will probably change the tensioners this summer using this method while changing the pump. I will appreciate any additional information on this method (photos, videos,...)
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