This truly is an awesome awd system. Much better than on any Audi.

The car drives as a rwd car and with DSC off you control the attitude with your right foot and steering angle. With the awd though you don't spin out. I suppose you could if you tried but this system is so transparent, controllable and catchable you'd have to try hard.

You don't need it and, in fact can't use this awd system unless the road surface gets very slippery. The computer controller only accesses the awd capability in the case of incipient wheelspin at the rear axle. I know Jaguar claims it operates at other times but having driven my new car and my old car I can tell you the awd is completely unnecessary unless you routinely drive on snow or ice.

Then it is pure magic, transforming the car from a bit of a handful to a mean snow machine.

 

Bring on the SC V8 in awd!

 

That's what it's all about!

Where's the pics!!! Enjoy yourself, the Jaguar is in the blood!!! Regards, Stu

 

Yes, pictures of me sideways could be entertaining, with snow flying off all four wheels during a drift. Tough to photo myself though.

 

What tyres do you drive with in winter now you have the awd system? Still winter ones, or do you use all seasons?

 

Surely it'd be winters?

The setup would be awesome and almost unstoppable I'm sure.

I watched a video comparing a Skoda Yeti with awd on all season tyres versus the same car in fwd guise with winter tyres.

Surprisingly for me anyway, the std car with winter tyres outperformed the awd vehicle in all tests!!

 

Many tests have shown that a car, even RWD, with decent winter tires will outperform AWD with all season tires - that was part of the lame argument that Jaguar made for why they did not have AWD. There are two things I really blame Ford for with respect to their Jaguar ownership - First, the abomination that was the X-Type (I know there are X-Type supporters but it never should have seen the light of day, and did NOT save Jaguar, but rather just muddied its image, cheapened the marque, and caused a reduction in focus on what they should have been done). It was Jaguar's Cadillac Cimmaron. Second, missing the boat entirely with AWD on the "real" Jaguar saloons. That handwriting was on the wall for at least ten years and they simply missed it. Fact of the matter is they only put it on the X-Type to try to someohow diferentiate it from the Chevy Cavalier - wait, I mean Mondeo...

 

Agreed on the first part about winter tyres outperforming awd.

The 2nd point on the X type, I and I think many others will disagree, the X type was and is a pretty good car for what it is and IMHO benefits from the liason with Ford

The awd is pretty awesome for what it is, I loved it on my 2.5 version.

Anyhow, we'll agree to disagree I guess

 

The X Type was and remains an excellent design poorly executed. Ford penny pinching was the cause.

The Ford Mondeo upon which the X Type was based is acknowledged to be one of the finest cars of its type ever built. In fact it is so good the current iteration is sold over here as the Fusion and until recently the Mazda 6, both excellent cars. Ford has more or less given up on trying to market North American designs.

The Ferguson (Ricardo) awd system fitted to the X Type remains one of the best ever fitted to a road car. The current XF AWD system is finally superior to that older technology.

As for the superiority of winter tires over all seasons, well duh. Although if you tried Michelin's Pilot A/S Plus you'd be in for a big surprise. The performance margin between all seasons and winter tires is diminishing.

 

The X-Type was and still is a disaster - the platform used on current Fusions is a new Ford design and even last generation Fusions were ultimately a Mazda derived design, not the platform of the Contour/Mondeo/X-type. The X-type had among the most incredibly bad packaging that could be imagined. The effort was merely an attempt to make a silk purse from a sows ear, and AWD was there because Jag had avowed to never sell a front drive car ( and I hope they still won't but who knows), and they would have been totally laughed out of town as selling a rebadged Contour/Mystique - There's a reason people call the Mystique a "Mistake" instead. It seriously tarnished the Jaguar brand even to this day. But, no need to believe me about it - here are some quotes from Jaguar and Ford about the mistake that the X-Type was:

"It didn't look mature or powerful or anything. It was just a car," Jaguar's current head of advanced design, Julian Thomson, told PistonHeads. Basing the X-Type on a front-drive car while giving it styling that was meant for a rear-driver lead to proportions that "were plainly wrong," Thomson told PH. Ford's European head of quality, Gunnar Herrmann, added that the X-Type was "a fake Jaguar, because every piece I touch is Ford."

As to your "well duh" statement, I presume that's aimed at the moderator who stated he was "surprised" by these results?

As to the fallacious statement about the Michelins, well, winter tire technology marches on just as it does for all seasons, and the margin remains. Those AS compounds simply can't do the job properly when faced with the combination of low temps and slippery surfaces, which "anyone with any experience would know" to quote from another member.

 

Here you go again. Where do you find this "information"?

The Contour bears no relation to the Mondeo used as a basis for the Jaguar X Type.

Ford owned a big piece of Mazda at the time the relevant Mazda 6 was released which is why Mazda used Ford platforms and powertrains, not the other way around. The Mazda 6 is a Ford Mondeo up to the current iteration which is still more Mazda than Ford. The Mazda 3 is a Ford Focus from Europe until the current 2014 model. The CX5 is a Ford Kuga (now the newest Escape). Mazda nearly went under before Ford provided the cash. Fiord sold its stake in Mazda during the same retrenchment that resulted in the sales of PAG divisions just completed with the disposition of Volvo to the Chinese.

Heck, for North America Mazdas were actually built in a Ford factory in Michigan.

As for tire technology marching on, yes that was my point actually. I am actually comparing my new Michelin A/S Plus to my new Continental Extreme Winter Contacts on the same car in the same winter conditions I can assure you the gap is closing.

The "duh" remark wasn't aimed at anyone in particular but applies to anyone who thinks it is debatable that all season tires are equal to winter tires in winter. Something I haven't said.

Still, it is somehow vaguely satisfying that you continue to respond to my posts although why you still do escapes me entirely since you add no value to the debate.

 

[QUOTE=JimC64;859008

I watched a video comparing a Skoda Yeti with awd on all season tyres versus the same car in fwd guise with winter tyres.
[/QUOTE]


I didn't make any comment on all season tyres v winter tyres.....The comparison was an AWD car on all season tyres v a FWD car with winter tyres, so essentially AWD v FWD but with tyre differences thrown in.

Whether there are some car enthusiasts, perhaps even owners, or Ford themselves who have a swipe at the X type the fact remains it is a much loved example and a pretty darned good entry level Jag.
The Mondeo with which it shares around 20% mostly running gear, ( meaning great parts availability at good prices ) was and is hugely popular over here in the UK.
I had one of the them from around 1994 and had several in 1.8d, 1.8td, 2.0Tdci and the 2.2Tdci

Generally they were kept for around 3 years at which point I had covered around 160k or so, all with very little issues other than std servicing and adding fuel, now and then a little oil. My Son in Law has an 07 2.2Tdci model and loves it to bits as he did with his previous model.
Ford have a huge fan base over here


So sorry to get off topic on this one Jagular.

Thanks for the comments on the AWD capability of the XF.....always good to hear such positive comments

 

The facts are that Jaguar's current AWD system is good but not great. It is by no means as sophisticated as the better torque vectoring systems currently in use. Is it a good contemporary system, sure. Jaguar will undoubtedly use a much more advanced system in all the upcoming models.

I'll not belabor the Contour/X-Type/Mondeo topic and relationship other than to say that anyone who knows even a cursory amount about the underlying platforms understands their very close relationship. And I'm sorry to have mentioned the X-Type at all, but I'm sure not as sorry as Jaguar is to have produced it and put a Jaguar badge on it...

The whole point of the 2wd/AWD comparison is to show the profound impact of winter tires, and I'm absolutely certain an AWD XF with good winter tires is an awesome handler. Far better than the same car with Pilot AS plus would be. Fact of the matter is that I'm sure the response would have been completely counter if I said I thought current all seasons were catching up to winter compounds.

It seems like the "debate" is certainly better off with accurate information versus what was shared on this thread.

 

This is inaccurate, again. Even backpedalling doesn't help if you are 180 degrees off to begin with.

Torque vectoring is another Audi illusion to camouflage their really quite unsophisticated awd system. The only point to this heavy and impractical system is to reduce the awful understeer afflicting all Audis because they put the engine too far forward. If you drive both types of awd on snow or ice (or bare road for that matter) the significant superiority of the Jaguar system will be immediately apparent, if you know anything about winter driving. The only torque vectoring awd system that was any good on ice was built by SAAB out of the otherwise fairly dull Haldex system. Unfortunately, GM drove SAAB under before I could try one.

As for all season tread compounds Michelin has indeed found something of the holy grail of street tire compounding in their newer Pilot A/S line. At or near freezing they seem nearly equal to high performance winter tires. I am fairly sure an awd equipped with a set of those would equal or exceed the performance of a fwd or rwd car equipped with high performance winter tires. Tune in again in five years or so and I'll let you know. Next winter I'll know how they compare on the same rwd vehicle as a set of Pilot A/S 3 is going onto my BRZ.

 

very good points were made about the X-type....I agree with the fact that it was a great idea that was executed poorly. it could have gone a long ways.

as for the AWD, its funny....ive always had RWD XJ's....and they were GREAT in snow with all seasons. I got a RWD XF and it was horrible. When i was shopping to replace the XF with another XJ, i was considering waiting for the AWD models....but i got a really crazy deal on the RWD so i went for it.......and yet again, the RWD XJ drives in the snow amazingly well!

 

I drove one a couple of weeks ago when my car was in for service. I thought it was quite good.

 

I was going to say this is like beating my head against a wall, but that's really an insult to walls everywhere. My last response was hardly backpedalling, and I was trying to avoid addressing any of the Ford Escape, etc. drivel that was shared in an apparent attempt to show knowledge of the completely unrelated to obscure the wrongheaded comments made that were on topic.

But, since I've now been again quoted, let me address things in as dispassionate way as possible:

1) It was stated that the Michelin Pilot Sport AS Plus would surprise me. Why? That's an older tire design that is truly a middling performer versus contemporary competition. Did the poster misspeak and actually mean the newer Pilot Sport AS 3 that was mentioned in conjunction with the BRZ comment (and how in the world would a BRZ even enter into the conversation??)? But, since the poster never misspeaks, he clearly meant the Pilot Sport AS Plus, and therefore the tread compund argument is laughably wrong.

2) The poster speaks about Audi Quattro as a monolithic system, which they are not, and further makes the erroneous assumption that I am speaking of only Audi's new torque vectoring system, when there are obviously quite a number of very good torque vectoring systems that have nothing to do with Audi - the Magna Steyr Mercedes system, the latest xDrives, the SH-AWD from Honda, and so on. The world does extend beyond Audi comparisons, and even there, the poster is wrong, but I just won't belabor it.

3) The X-Type was only mentioned by me because of the fact that it was the first Jaguar attempt at AWD and the link back to Ford. If the poster knows anything at all about the real relationship between Ford and Mazda, he would understand that it would be too charitable to even claim that he was 180 degrees off track - he's not even on the correct page of history. The gradual Ford investment in Mazda (aside from likely saving Mazda from oblivion) yielded Ford the small to midsize chassis expertise they were lacking WORLDWIDE, and gave Mazda access to Ford powertrain components - vastly oversimplified, but this is undeniable. Mazda's G platform became the basis for the various Ford world car attempts, eventually resulting in variations that ultimately became the CDW platform base from Ford. Even the CD3 platform was primarily designed by Mazda for Ford. The CD132 and 162 platforms were derivatives, ultimately of Mazda designs. The CD132 of the X-Type was admittedly heavily revised to accomodate the AWD system and that's why it has a different code. But, the fact is that the X-Type was based, fundamentally, on a Mazda designed chassis, and this gaulled the Jaguar folks who were presented the X-Type in basically finished form and were told (not asked) that this was going to be a Jaguar. I have to laugh a little, because, just to be certain I wasn't even more off my rocker than I admit, I came across an article from Time Magazine - something about the worst automotive designs (and I'm not saying Time is the font of car knowledge...) - and they noted the X-Type being referred to as the British Cadillac Cimmaron! I guess I'm guilty of inadvertent plagiarism, LOL

All this said, I go back to saying again that I have no doubt that an AWD XF with winter tires would be an awesome winter handler. I'll have to make do with a V8 with good winter tires...

 

Topic closed